This puts the Virus into the shadows

[novocaine]

We have a small and efficient single person vehicle already. unfortunately it lacks the creature comforts that most of society demands.
you might have heard of it, it's call a bike, motor or otherwise. now turn on the whingy voice.... but it's cold and it's wet and it's not got a stereo and, and, and, and.......
worse still on a bicycle, you might get a bit sweaty and heaven forbid.

 

[Jonm]

Like this?

As a concept that is really good. A practical way of travelling around town/city. Easy to park, room for two people plus shopping. As for use by multiple people, I can see that having issues. Where will it be stored that is convenient, who will make sure it is charged up, what if it is damaged, will it be vandalised etc.

As a city car the light weight, zero emissions, quiet and low power requirement is great. In fact electric vehicles should make our cities much more pleasant with less air pollution and noise. I suspect that one of the Scandinavian countries or perhaps Germany will show us what improvements can be made to a city to make them more pleasant.

In the meantime I will continue to use my old, large engined, not economical Volvo. Low annual mileage and basically zero depreciation makes this the economical and environmentally best solution.
A new car would dump 20 tons of CO2 in to the atmosphere. My petrol usage creates about 1 ton of CO2 per year, the new car if it were twice as economical would produce 0.5 ton of CO2 per year, so 40 years to break even, far longer than the life of the new car.

 

[Jelly]

We have a small and efficient single person vehicle already. unfortunately it lacks the creature comforts that most of society demands.
you might have heard of it, it's call a bike, motor or otherwise. now turn on the whingy voice.... but it's cold and it's wet and it's not got a stereo and, and, and, and.......
worse still on a bicycle, you might get a bit sweaty and heaven forbid.

I used to cycle to and from work, but after narrowly avoiding being thrown under a bus the 3rd time I was knocked off, I gave up and went back to the car...

To add insult to injury my at the time boss was waiting at the gate for me and launched into his "why the hell are you late" rant, before clocking that he was shouting at a bloke in torn lycras, bleeding from various grazes and carrying a broken pushbike on his shoulder; and it might in fact be coming across as a mite unreasonable.

 

[novocaine]

not going to argue with you Jelly, but that isn't really the fault of the bike is it?

I've been knocked off 3 times in 4 years, not once has it been the fault of the bike or me.

not the point to the discussion though, so I won't derail it down the line of crap drivers, mainly because someone will be along to point out that cyclists make mistakes too and then we just spiral down the same opinionated rants with little to no evidence that this place is known for.

 

[Jelly]

not going to argue with you Jelly, but that isn't really the fault of the bike is it?

I've been knocked off 3 times in 4 years, not once has it been the fault of the bike or me.

not the point to the discussion though, so I won't derail it down the line of rubbish drivers, mainly because someone will be along to point out that cyclists make mistakes too and then we just spiral down the same opinionated rants with little to no evidence that this place is known for.

I would tend to say that given that it's common knowledge that people in general are not great at piloting their chosen modes of transport, it wouldn't be a huge leap to conclude it's best to separate the two camps (and as far as possible pedestrians too)...

Yet we don't seem to have much enthusiasm for the idea as a nation, in spite of our national love for appeals to "common sense".

 

[Jacob]

Have cycled 1000s of miles and never been knocked off. Maybe just lucky but I do think there are tactics to learn especially if things get busy - first and foremost being hi-viz. Motorists are on autopilot a lot of the time but that hi viz yellow instantly says be careful: police/road-worker/emergency.
Then other stuff like keeping away from kerb, holding position in centre of a traffic lane, other routines. Maybe there's not enough info, training etc - there's a definite learning curve.

 

[sirocosm]

I ride a bike to work, and hope not to die early. In the UK drivers are much more impatient than other places, even towards pedestrians. I can't wait until they are all off the road and we have driverless cars, then we won't even need bike lanes (because the driverless cars will be polite). I think they will force regular cars off the road way faster than people think, and it will be because of the price of insurance.

 

[Jelly]

Have cycled 1000s of miles and never been knocked off. Maybe just lucky but I do think there are tactics to learn especially if things get busy - first and foremost being hi-viz. Motorists are on autopilot a lot of the time but that hi viz yellow instantly says be careful: police/road-worker/emergency.
Then other stuff like keeping away from kerb, holding position in centre of a traffic lane, other routines. Maybe there's not enough info, training etc - there's a definite learning curve.

Whilst I was at Uni I commuted about 7000 miles total by bike over 5 years without any issues, but in a rural area and a small low traffic city; only had issues once I ended up in a much bigger city with dense but fast moving traffic.

So I'm not sure how much luck has to do with it, good judgement might be more the factor as I doubt You (or many others) would voluntarily choose to ride the route I had to follow!

All three times were whilst wearing fluro orange cycling gear, and all at the same roundabout which has 3 lanes coming on, in 4 directions, and would have involved a two mile (and three hill) detour, or a one mile detour cycling on a dual carriageway to avoid it ...

Two were people entering the roundabout on my right after I'd set off with a clear run, and maintaining too fast a speed assuming I could accelerate as fast as a car then clipping my back wheel, and the final time was a transit trying to undertake me on the roundabout and sideswiping me.

I came to the conclusion that there were no appropriate cycling routes where I could be confident in morning rush hour traffic; which was a bit rubbish as I found it really energised me for the day ahead when I did commute by bike.

 

[Jacob]

Whilst I was at Uni I commuted about 7000 miles total by bike over 5 years without any issues, but in a rural area and a small low traffic city; only had issues once I ended up in a much bigger city with dense but fast moving traffic.

So I'm not sure how much luck has to do with it, good judgement might be more the factor as I doubt You (or many others) would voluntarily choose to ride the route I had to follow!

All three times were whilst wearing fluro orange cycling gear, and all at the same roundabout which has 3 lanes coming on, in 4 directions, and would have involved a two mile (and three hill) detour, or a one mile detour cycling on a dual carriageway to avoid it ...

Two were people entering the roundabout on my right after I'd set off with a clear run, and maintaining too fast a speed assuming I could accelerate as fast as a car then clipping my back wheel, and the final time was a transit trying to undertake me on the roundabout and sideswiping me.

I came to the conclusion that there were no appropriate cycling routes where I could be confident in morning rush hour traffic; which was a bit rubbish as I found it really energised me for the day ahead when I did commute by bike.

Worst one ever I nearly got stuck in one of the middle lanes and couldn't cross back to get to the exit, with huge wagons passing on either side. Big roundabouts with fast traffic are not bike friendly!
Since then I've occasionally got off and pushed around roundabouts like that, or pedalled cautiously around the outer edge, making a dash across the exits.

 

[Robbo60]

So I'm guessing my prospective purchase of a 4.2 supercharged Range Rover wouldn't go down well?

 

[Jacob]

So I'm guessing my prospective purchase of a 4.2 supercharged Range Rover wouldn't go down well?

Wouldn't want to separate boys from their toys!

 

[Jelly]

So I'm guessing my prospective purchase of a 4.2 supercharged Range Rover wouldn't go down well?

I mean I'd depends if it's a Range Rover, or one of the modern monstrosities which looks indistinguishable from every other car in the JLR lineup...

You'd get a pass for aesthetic and historical reasons if it's original...

 

[Jelly]

Big roundabouts with fast traffic are not bike friendly!
...
Pedalled cautiously around the outer edge, making a dash across the exits.

Agreed!

York has been experimenting with putting physically separated cycle lanes round the outside of roundabouts using two different designs, one from Amsterdam and one from Utrecht.

Both which facilitate the approach you're talking about but with a big kerb to discourage traffic getting too close making it feel a little less sketchy!

It's quite a bit more pleasant as a cyclist and actually draws your attention to think about the cyclists as a driver, without getting in your way at all if there aren't any using it.

 

[sploo]

Agreed!

York has been experimenting with putting physically separated cycle lanes round the outside of roundabouts using two different designs, one from Amsterdam and one from Utrecht.

Both which facilitate the approach you're talking about but with a big kerb to discourage traffic getting too close making it feel a little less sketchy!

It's quite a bit more pleasant as a cyclist and actually draws your attention to think about the cyclists as a driver, without getting in your way at all if there aren't any using it.

I wish we had more of that sort of stuff in the UK. As someone who enjoys driving and cycling I don't have an "us vs them" mentality; just an appreciation that the speeds and needs of cars and bicycles really don't mix well, and generally just result in both groups getting annoyed with one another (and accidents).

 

[Jacob]

Whatever the figure* one thing we do know is that the effects could have been far worse, devastating large areas of Europe, had it not been for good luck with wind and weather directions and conditions.
*Wikipedia: "....... 4,000 fatalities when solely assessing the three most contaminated former Soviet states, to about 9,000 to 16,000 fatalities when assessing the total continent of Europe...."

Low tech gets lost in the argument. Not all silly, but may not appeal to techie types!
Is there anything in this idea? Would You Cycle For An Hour Every Day If It Powered Your Home For 24 Hours?
Other low tech suggestions:
1 fill empty quarries and mines with plastic waste and wood - returning carbon to the carboniferous strata we've stripped.
2 Tax plastic production out of viability but buy back waste to dump in holes
2 store surplus wind farm energy by winding massive weights up old mine shafts, to be lowered whilst powering generators. Sounds daft but could work around here where we have old mine shafts all over the landscape, and wind generators.
3 Choose a date when all fossil fuel use will stop, globally.
4 Ban all street parking everywhere (except when stopping to load, unload of course)
5 Impose country wide 50 mph speed limit
6 A very big one could be to ban meat eating.

hmm, could go on! The point is - we have to think outside the box and not just hope that somehow things will carry on the same, thanks to 100% safe nuclear power or other mirages!

 

[Rorschach]

@Jacob You missed number 7, pick a day and everyone drinks the coolaid. Problem solved.

 

[Spectric]

Motorists are on autopilot a lot of the time but that hi viz yellow instantly says be careful:

Yes I do question Yellow as the best colour for Hi Viz, I suppose it depends upon the background. In towns and cities yellow does stand out but what about in the country with a more green/yellow background, then I think that orange is probably the better choice. Also note that the railways use orange hi vis and also the bright pink worn by female cyclist also stands out but I cannot see it catching on for general use.

 

[Jacob]

Yes I do question Yellow as the best colour for Hi Viz, I suppose it depends upon the background. In towns and cities yellow does stand out but what about in the country with a more green/yellow background, then I think that orange is probably the better choice. Also note that the railways use orange hi vis and also the bright pink worn by female cyclist also stands out but I cannot see it catching on for general use.

It's not just the brightness it's the association of hi viz yellow with police, emergency services, road workers, etc.
High viz orange does the same for rail workers - it's not the colour alone, its the message. That's what cuts through the auto pilot.
Pink won't do it, even if covered in polka dots

 

[Spectric]

That's what cuts through the auto pilot.
Pink won't do it, even if covered in polka dots

But what about who's wearing it !

 

[Jacob]

But what about who's wearing it !

Pink means girls!
Could be distracting and cause accidents!