Thieving little twats

[Dibs-h]

Let's just nuke the whole nation, it's going to the dogs anyway.

Let me at least finish my bunker first! :lol:

 

[wobblycogs]

By the time you have finished filling it with food and water to survive the end of the world you won't have any space left to do woodwork. Doh! Sounds like a really good excuse to build a second even bigger shop - for the sake of your family of course.

 

[Dibs-h]

By the time you have finished filling it with food and water to survive the end of the world you won't have any space left to do woodwork. Doh! Sounds like a really good excuse to build a second even bigger shop - for the sake of your family of course.

:-$ - aka new garage and a basement.

 

[Bluekingfisher]

Soon all the decent law abiding, tax paying, decent folks will be on the inside while the criminals will be on the outside, most probably in your home which has now been possessed to house the poor unfortunates.

Was in New Zealand and Oz in November and certainly felt much safer than here. A shock to the system when you come back TBH and NZ in particular seems to be as I remember (rose tints again) the UK to be in my youth when nobody bothered to lock their door.

My house these days is like Fort Knox :x

Unfortunately Lons, everything in NZ may seem rosy, as in England of 50 years ago, but as far as burglary goes, NZ has the highest rates for burglary per head of population in the civilised world. No idea why that is, just a useless stat I picked up (Useless unless you are a Kiwi) I have no idea Burglary rates for Oz though

 

[Bluekingfisher]

don't let the basterds (tarentino spelling) grind you down and get a dog, really spiky bushes are a good idea too

I have a sliding mitre saw you can have if you are ever round nottingham

Cheers Danny (I'm assuming you meant me) - the couple of offers are very much appreciated. I realised last night that my portable nail gun compressor had gone too - that really peeved me off.:evil:

But it's spurred me on to the point that you would probably need to nick a digger and come round to the workshop to get in. Security does cost - but a lot less if built in, than added onto.

Security does cost, but so does your tools and your insurance premiums if you don't take reasonable steps to protect your kit.

I visited a lady who had suffered a burglary through her patio doors. She invited me in and took great delight in telling me all about the £22K kitchen she was in the process of having installed. Very nice too I thought but where did they get in? over here she said. The patio doors were 30mm x 30mm soft wood frames with single panes of glass, held shut with a close peg pushed through two eye bolts. I suggested she may wish to upgrade her security regards the doors and locks. I can't she said, I have ran out of money. Kind of says alot when someone can spend £22K on a kitchen then 22 pence on security, of course you can't boast to your friends about your security system now can you.

Security is usually the last item marked on the budget list and receives the least funds or consideration until you become a victim. Walk down any street and look at what people have for security. The houses with the alarm boxes, grilles, security lighting etc I would wager have all suffered from burglaries. I have yet to meet someone who has taken the precaution and not suffered. It's not a case of bolting the stable door because if you give criminals the chance they will take it.

Did hear about the sheriff in one of the Southern states in the USA. All the prisoners are made to work, they are made to wear pink boiler suits to identify them to the public that their liberty has been withdrawn. They are not allowed to smoke because it is bad for them, not allowed coffee because caffeine is bad for them. They are housed in tents because the financial burden is less to the public and because "our boys in the gulf serving our country have to endure such conditions so you sure ain't going to have accommodation better than theirs. He tried to stop them from having TV but the tree huggers felt the inmates would benefit from TV. He now allows TV but only the News channel and the disney channel and for only 1 hour a day.

surprisingly he hasn't yet had one re-offender in the three years he has been in the position. The local community reelect him every year.

 

[Bluekingfisher]

Erm, that's my point. Looking at it in isolation is the problem. The only solution people are coming up with at the moment is ever more severe punishment but that has been tried in the past and it didn't work (at least not very well).

I think punsihment of repeat offenders is too light at present but that doesn't change the fundamental fact that this problem is a lot more complicated than: more punishment = less crime.

They can't commit crime if they are in jail, at least not against Mr & Mrs Mortgage

 

[studders]

Your comment about the kitchen and the clothes peg made me chuckle but, you are right.
I wanted to install CCTV at my Garage, which is very easily accessible, but not visible to me from the house. When I saw the cheapest solution was over £200 I didn't do it.
Stupid stupid stupid. The cost of a break in, even if they only took hand power tools would be way in excess of that.

 

[wobblycogs]

I can't argue with the logic that they can't commit crime (against the general public at least) if they are in jail but like wise you can't argue that keeping them in jail doesn't cause a financial burden on the country.

It's interesting that you bring up jails in America because of all the developed countries I would say they have the worst relationship with crime. In December 2008 754 per 100k people were behind bars in America giving them the highest reported incareration rate in the world. I don't think anyone here would argue that America is safer than the UK and we only have an incarceration rate of 150 per 100k.

More worryingly though is the trend in America to force or at least coerce prisoners to work for very little reward making items that are then sold for profit. It's easy to see how that would cause a demand for more prisoners.

 

[big soft moose]

I can't argue with the logic that they can't commit crime (against the general public at least) if they are in jail but like wise you can't argue that keeping them in jail doesn't cause a financial burden on the country.
.

hence my suggestion that we shoot the little bar stewards in the head (at least the repeat offenders) a 9mm round and a grave is a lot cheaper than food and board for life

or if we baulk at that we could draft the little sods into the infantry and sent them to afghanistan to let the taliban do the shooting for us

as to the number of people in jail compared to america - i wonder how the figure compare if you include those given non custodial sentences, cautions, asbos etc

 

[Bluekingfisher]

It could be because the developed world is full of people with goodies worth stealing. As our prosperity has increased so with it our material gain, matched directly with the increase in crime rates. Supply and demand I guess but people have said to me, I don't think it's worth beefing up my security because I have nothing worth stealing. Everyone has something worth something to somebody. Besides, Billy the burglar doesn't know you have nothing to steal before he breaks in, so at best you will have to suffer the aggravation and indignity associated with a break in which by the way can come to many hundreds of pounds in damages alone

 

[Bluekingfisher]

Big Moose, I think you have stated what many people think but are afraid to say it for fear of being labelled a nazi or a psycho but the do gooder brigade.

While I think some of them are worth saving, individuals convicted of murder serve no purpose and should be dealt with in a more robust fashion.

For example the vast majority of murders are not picked up by the media and brought to public attention unless there is some aggravating circumstance like and child or other vulnerable is involved.

My point is, the term life sentence represents no such thing in the UK. A life term is 15 years. Should the offender keep under the radar while in the nick he/she will only serve half that term (3/4 in Scotland) so here in England they are back on the streets in 7 years. Scary stuff

 

[studders]

That's a disgrace. Unless there is an appeal or new evidence then those found guilty of Murder should be given Life and it should mean just that, no parole.

 

[wobblycogs]

It could be because the developed world is full of people with goodies worth stealing.

This can't be the case because it would imply that Americans must be on average about 5 times richer than us (they are richer but not by that much) and it doesn't explain why some poor countries have high incarceration rates.

Shooting all offenders is one solution but fortunately I don't think the majority would go for it, at least not for any length of time.In fact I think it would probably cause the collapse of society. Imagine the scenario: little Jimmy the son of the prime minister (probably a dictator by this point) commits a crime, unable to put his own son to death he finds a way around the punishment. Cue the uprising unless of course you are willing to suppress that with force as well?

There are a small number of criminals that should never be allowed back in to society. Whether we should put them down or not I don't know but for the vast majority I don't see state sanctioned violence / killing as the solution.

 

[Dibs-h]

It's difficult to pin point what drives theft - yes there's the obvious one, junkies to get their next fix, but they would sell their toddler if it came down to it.

It's the rest - if they're not junkies then (to my mind) the necessary psychological checks and balances that in most people would prevent theft, must either not exist or have been overcome. Now if they don't exist, is it due to upbringing (poor, violent, abuse, etc.) or do we have a personality defect (psychopath, sociapath, etc.)?

Or if they've been overcome - is it due to the belief\perception that working for stuff is harder and takes ages - as opposed to liberating stuff from others.

One could replace theft with other sorts of crime.

I do find it difficult to accept that someone who sells drugs on a large scale, isn't a junkie and acquires a £1/2M house and lifestyle gets <10 yrs - when the lives ruined by that enterprise (if you could call it that) get nothing, i.e. no real justice.

A bullet would be more fitting and send a far greater message to society that not only must justice be served, but it must be seen to be served.

Strange how most MP's - i.e the lawmakers live in really nice parts of town\s, have 24 hr protection, house alarms linked to Police stations, etc. - question is "What the fcuk do they know about the real world?" Fcuking cloud cuckoo land!

Sorry for the rant.

 

[Bluekingfisher]

I don't think anyone is advocating a Judge Dred shoot em on sight state backed policy. What we are saying is the punishment should fit the crime and it is clearly not. We are not even allowed to call them prisoners anymore FFs they are inmates???? Remember these individuals make their own choice, it is not compulsory to commit crime regardless of your needs.

As a society we need to make them feel ashamed and afraid for their actions instead it is the other way round. People are afraid to go out to walk there dog as one contributor mentioned, why should that be?? The hands of the police are tied. When I joined 25 years ago the most important aspect of policing was initiating and using common sense and use of judgement. To give a property holder a dressing down for protecting his home and family is an example of the way the young cops are now taught. When I tell them the way it used to be they gaze at me in disbelief, I am a dinosaur as far as they are concerned and way out of touch. What my fear is, is the loss of trust of the public. I still feel, as the police we still have that respect and trust from the communities (in general) we police because we are approachable and fair. The way it's going we will become alienated and once the trust is gone, it's gone for good.

 

[studders]

"What the fcuk do they know about the real world?" Fcuking cloud cuckoo land!

Sorry for the rant.

Be fair, some them have spent a whole week living in High Rise Land as an experiment to find out what it's like living on a low income etc... etc.. , surely that makes them experts?

 

[studders]

The way it's going we will become alienated and once the trust is gone, it's gone for good.

Sad to say that has already happened, at least for me, and yes.. it was several instances involving young, and seemingly rather stupid, PC's that did it.
I know I shouldn't judge all Coppers because of it but the 'Back 'em up' attitude from more senior officers, no matter how twatish they've been, certainly doesn't help.
But that is rather another topic.

 

[Bluekingfisher]

On the topic of shootings and bullets, I can't forget the question put to the trooper during the investigation of the Iranian Embassy seige.

When asked "Why did you shoot Mr ^&&%^^&&*^ 13 times,"?

his reply was...."Because I ran out of bullets"!

Mr *&^&*^&^^)^ hasn't been invoved in any more crimes!

 

[loz]

On the topic of shootings and bullets, I can't forget the question put to the trooper during the investigation of the Iranian Embassy seige.

When asked "Why did you shoot Mr ^&&%^^&&*^ 13 times,"?

his reply was...."Because I ran out of bullets"!

Mr *&^&*^&^^)^ hasn't been invoved in any more crimes!

I think that was a gibralter quote not the Emabassy......

 

[Bluekingfisher]

The way it's going we will become alienated and once the trust is gone, it's gone for good.

Sad to say that has already happened, at least for me, and yes.. it was several instances involving young, and seemingly rather stupid, PC's that did it.
I know I shouldn't judge all Coppers because of it but the 'Back 'em up' attitude from more senior officers, no matter how twatish they've been, certainly doesn't help.
But that is rather another topic.

In reality that couldn't be further from the truth, senior officers don't get to be senior because they are good policemen, it's because they make use of the system which involves not being held to account and ducking the issue. So to back someone up for a mistake is as far as they are concerned, putting their head on the block

We have a saying, Those who can do, those who can't, take promotion.

But I have to tell you, the public can be incredibly stupid at times too and if I took the view of that all of the public were the same I wouldn't see the point in coming to work. We all make mistakes but when we make it habitual, it's inexcusable