THE FOURTH OF JULY

[RobinBHM]

I see Hi Risk Anus has just resigned. What's the chances the Tories will try to reshape themselves back into something at least remotely respectable... or try to become Reform-lite (I know what my money's on).

It depends how many of the ERG nutters are left.

My money is on them trying to be more racist, more hateful than Reform to try and get those voters back.

Silly as the bulk of Conservatives are traditional slightly right of centre Tories who believe in honour and decency.

Compare the words by Jeremt Hunt with those of Braverman and Ress Mogg.

 

[RobinBHM]

Starmer gave us IDS instead

No, that was the left that did that, people like Owen Jones.

 

[Fergie 307]

Your right but more Lib Dem, smaller majorities etc. It doesn't seem to do much harm in countries that apply it and people are more likely to vote if their vote as any chance of mattering. There are a lot of people like me living in a democracy but totally disenfranchised.

Oh I agree, if you want parliament to more accurately reflect the views of the people it is the way to go.
Current system very un representative, Lib Dems 3.5million votes and 71 seats. Reform 4 million votes and 4 seats, something not right there, and I am sure a lot of people who voted for them very unhappy about that.
Not a fan of reform, but clearly a lot of people are. If we genuinely believe in democracy then these people should be better represented.
How we have arrived at a position where so many hold these views is another matter entirely and, in my view anyway, a sad situation.

 

[Blackswanwood]

The usual answer to this is a box for none of the above. Personally if people can't be bothered to vote they can't complain, still want to see some form of PR.

IMHO making voting compulsory starts to erode rights of free speech (which includes the right to not speak).

There would also be a cost to enforcing it.

 

[paulrbarnard]

You can say what you like, but it was only introduced by the Tories because they hoped it would reduce the number of young people voting. The odious Mogg as good as admitted this after the recent by-elections.
Polling cards, on the other hand, speed up the process no end, but many voters don't bother taking them, as they're told that they're not necessary. So voters come in, stick their passport in your face and expect to be given a ballot paper, then you have to ask for their address, look it up, ask them to verify their name, "it's there in the passport, can't you read?". "I'm sorry, it's a requirement that I ask you to confirm it".
It's a process that could use some streamlining, and it's further complicated by the people outside, who ask if they've remembered to bring photo id, whereupon they produce it, and then wonder why they're being asked again, at the desk.

Even when I handover my polling card and driving license I still got asked to confirm my address which was written on both the documents I handed over. To cap it off the official was a neighbour…

 

[John Brown]

Even when I handover my polling card and driving license I still got asked to confirm my address which was written on both the documents I handed over. To cap it off the official was a neighbour…

It's a requirement. It's not up to the poll clerk, they're simply following orders...

 

[sploo]

It depends how many of the ERG nutters are left.

My money is on them trying to be more racist, more hateful than Reform to try and get those voters back.

Silly as the bulk of Conservatives are traditional slightly right of centre Tories who believe in honour and decency.

Compare the words by Jeremt Hunt with those of Braverman and Ress Mogg.

Indeed. Though the fact that puts Jeremy the Hunt in a comparatively positive light tells you how far the Tories have sunk.

 

[sploo]

It was 'er indoors. Now out of the door!
Dunno she might as well try to brighten things up a bit. And it's red white and blue.
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...ry-leader-as-well-as-pm-after-election-defeat

Oh right. Dunno why there was a need to criticise her clothing choice. Criticise the dodgy tax arrangements, definitely; but dress sense seems a pretty low-brow attack (not that I'm accusing you of it).

 

[Spectric]

What's the chances the Tories will try to reshape themselves back into something at least remotely respectable

Both parties win and lose, both parties re-shape themselves into something they think can win an election and there is the crux of the mater, the parties no longer seem to have a core identity and now have merged into something very similar.

When someone can win a good majority with such a low turnout and the seats they win are mostly close then politics is in a right state, people have turned their backs on it because they never see any change that makes a real difference in there day to day lives and I am amazed just how many people I know that have not bothered to vote this time round, not even to spoil the paper because they are just so disillusioned with the whole sorry state of westminster.

I wonder how long before the scottish realise what they have done in surrending all power to westminster by getting rid of the SNP, there so called devolved government will become just a puppet regime at the beck and call of westminster.

This election has brought a new meaning to what judges could say when passing sentence, especially considering Starmers past and now " You are sentenced to five years hard labour" has a whole new meaning !

 

[John Brown]

Both parties win and lose, both parties re-shape themselves into something they think can win an election and there is the crux of the mater, the parties no longer seem to have a core identity and now have merged into something very similar.

When someone can win a good majority with such a low turnout and the seats they win are mostly close then politics is in a right state, people have turned their backs on it because they never see any change that makes a real difference in there day to day lives and I am amazed just how many people I know that have not bothered to vote this time round, not even to spoil the paper because they are just so disillusioned with the whole sorry state of westminster.

I wonder how long before the scottish realise what they have done in surrending all power to westminster by getting rid of the SNP, there so called devolved government will become just a puppet regime at the beck and call of westminster.

This election has brought a new meaning to what judges could say when passing sentence, especially considering Starmers past and now " You are sentenced to five years hard labour" has a whole new meaning !

Again, what is your point? If you reckon they're all the same, then why do you keep banging on about troubles ahead with Labour?

 

[Spectric]

IMHO making voting compulsory starts to erode rights of free speech (which includes the right to not speak).

But does compulsory voting mean you have to actually vote for a party or that you have to vote to not vote so that every person eligable to vote is recorded as having had their input. This means everyone was in a position to have voted and took direct action not to rather than just doing nothing.

Again a country where it is a legal requirement to vote is Australia, also Belgium with a lot of the others being more 3rd world.

 

[Spectric]

Again, what is your point? If you reckon they're all the same, then why do you keep banging on about troubles ahead with Labour?

Because if you needed a screwdriver but only had one, two or six saws you are still in the same boat.

 

[selectortone]

also Belgium

Where they seem to be in constant political limbo with ever-shifting coalitions because of their particular flavour of PR.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Where they seem to be in constant political limbo with ever-shifting coalitions because of their particular flavour of PR.

They managed perfectly well for the better part of two years with no government.
“The nine most terrifying words in the English language are ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” R. Reagan.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Again a country where it is a legal requirement to vote is Australia, also Belgium with a lot of the others being more 3rd world.

In Oz for one there is a "none of the above" box.

 

[selectortone]

They managed perfectly well for the better part of two years with no government.

Yes they did. It just goes to show that the real people running the country are the civil service. Probably not good in the very long run though.

 

[selectortone]

In Oz for one there is a "none of the above" box.

In this country you can just spoil your ballot paper. There was a certain satisfaction in writing 'w*nker!' against the tory candidate here in Bournemouth when historically a chimpanzee with a blue rosette would get in.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I confess to having done the same against Labour ones before.

 

[Blackswanwood]

But does compulsory voting mean you have to actually vote for a party or that you have to vote to not vote so that every person eligable to vote is recorded as having had their input. This means everyone was in a position to have voted and took direct action not to rather than just doing nothing.

Again a country where it is a legal requirement to vote is Australia, also Belgium with a lot of the others being more 3rd world.

That’s an erosion of free speech which includes the right to be silent (as I said in my post).

To my mind there is no point in incurring the cost of enforcing compulsory voting. I’d rather my taxes were spent on the NHS, Defence, mending pot holes etc. Ironically a significant proportion of the 22 countries that claim to have compulsory voting don’t actually enforce it.

 

[Blackswanwood]

In this country you can just spoil your ballot paper. There was a certain satisfaction in writing 'w*nker!' against the tory candidate here in Bournemouth when historically a chimpanzee with a blue rosette would get in.

I believe that spoilt ballot papers have to be inspected by the candidates so that’s possibly a good way of letting them know how you feel.