Labour has stated they 'will not increase income tax, national insurance or VAT'; they have not said they won't increase taxes at all. As for 'new taxes', not sure what that means.
THE FOURTH OF JULY
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RobinBHM
Established Member
but the Conservatives have won every election since the 1980s on lowering taxes then raising them
since 2019 Conservatives have put in place policies to raise taxes by £80b and then Jeremy Hunt comes along, knocks a bit off NI and claims "Tories are party of lowering taxes"
I dont think you get more votes by being honest..........because the honesty gets lost by the way the the message gets twisted
Jacob
What goes around comes around.
Well Corbyn did, genuinely.
And Farage fakes it “The key to success is sincerity. If you can fake that you've got it made.”
You have an incredibly pessimistic view of them. Are you saying they should all just lie their way into power and then do something quite different? May the best fraudster win?
All Starmer leaves us with is messages getting twisted.
Well, that is what happens, especially of late; whether or not it should happen is a quite different matter. Realpolitik as opposed to Idealpolitik.
I agree, Corbyn is an honest man, and I think a very good one at that. But so are lots of other people who also didn't become prime minister and effect change over the last term.
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That is a really good summary of what an election campaign is all about, for starmer it is like a game of poker and he is keeping his cards close to his chest whilst maintaining the poker face so as to not give anything away.
A PM needs to just do what is needed to start fixing the issues and not a lot of speel to appease the voters, the voters need to accept that difficult decisions will have to be made in order to fix the issues otherwise nothing gets fixed.
For that we'd need a decent education system that teaches people critical thinking, that equips them to scrutinise the blarney politicians give them and draw informed, reasonable conclusions. We tend not to have such a system.
Yes I agree people are not as bright these days, probably why so many end up in politics.
Terry - Somerset
Established Member
Starmer is all but certain to get the keys to No10 - probably with a substantial overall majority.
A Tory/Reform pact, an increasingly unlikely possibility, could deliver a hung parliament. I expect that if this happens, some sort of deal between Labour and LibDems or SNP will follow.
The Starmer strategy has been to avoid alienating any potential voter, communicate a warn positive message, and rely upon general public distaste for Tories. The Tories are doing themselves no favours in creating the conditions for Reform to flourish.
He is not being open or honest about what may follow post election - individual opinions may regard this as (a) pragmatic electioneering, (b) a failure to face obvious challenges, or (c) lying.
IMHO there are elements of (a) and (c) in the mix. (b) is implausible - the whole Labour campaign is based on assertions of 14 years of chaos and CHANGE. They have had access to civil servants for months as it the case pre-election and have no excuses for ignorance.
The only remaining question is what they will do once in power. Supporters will clearly place trust in his actions over voting for an alternative. Personally I do not trust him but have to simply accept that which happens and deal with it accordingly.
A Tory/Reform pact, an increasingly unlikely possibility, could deliver a hung parliament. I expect that if this happens, some sort of deal between Labour and LibDems or SNP will follow.
The Starmer strategy has been to avoid alienating any potential voter, communicate a warn positive message, and rely upon general public distaste for Tories. The Tories are doing themselves no favours in creating the conditions for Reform to flourish.
He is not being open or honest about what may follow post election - individual opinions may regard this as (a) pragmatic electioneering, (b) a failure to face obvious challenges, or (c) lying.
IMHO there are elements of (a) and (c) in the mix. (b) is implausible - the whole Labour campaign is based on assertions of 14 years of chaos and CHANGE. They have had access to civil servants for months as it the case pre-election and have no excuses for ignorance.
The only remaining question is what they will do once in power. Supporters will clearly place trust in his actions over voting for an alternative. Personally I do not trust him but have to simply accept that which happens and deal with it accordingly.
Jacob
What goes around comes around.
Terry - Somerset
Established Member
They seem to be to Labour what Reform are to the Tories - with much less chance of electoral success - it helps to have candidates on the ballot papers.
Jacob
What goes around comes around.
They are looking to the future one way or another. Starmer will be gone quite soon but the labour movement will carry on the advance.
Reform is just a short term blip - no future, zero significance, soon to be forgotten. Berks, in a word.
Jacob
What goes around comes around.
If Muffin the Mule was leader of the Labour party he would probably do just as well, if not better.
RobinBHM
Established Member
Starmer is fighting against the lies of right wing populism…..the current government literally govern by lies and gaslighting, they’ve been doing so since 2019, when they won the election based on a massive Brexit con.
Starmers strategy needs to be seen in context
RobinBHM
Established Member
I doubt it, Muffin the Mule was leader in 2017 and 2019
What about Andy Pandy, more character and an appropriate theme tune of " I am coming to play " or maybe Starmer & Raynor would be better represented by Bill or Ben and Little weed .
RobinBHM
Established Member
what do you consider to be the “obvious challenges” that they aren’t facing
Keith Cocker
Established Member
“These days” a lot of younger people are considerably brighter than they were which accounts for the decline in support for the Conservative Party and why Farages followers are a bunch of incontinent geriatrics.
Jacob
What goes around comes around.
Starmer gaslighting his own party in retaliation? Not much of a strategy IMHO.
I don't think Keith quite got the idea.The biggest gaslighting ever has been against the left and Corbyn of course, from all sides including his own party, shadow cabinet and admin! Central to Starmer's campaign in fact, and they are still at it. I guess they have Corbyn filled nightmares - too much gaslighting can go to your head.
Not obviously successful - Labour ratings are still below Corbyn's in 2017, and falling steeply since the start of the election. The dismal bogglers will most likely win anyway, and claim the credit, in spite of the most cack-handed campaign in history!
https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/prediction_main.html
RobinBHM
Established Member
how is Jeremy Corbyn doing in his constituency....
A = not terribly well (14 points behind)
A = not terribly well (14 points behind)
Terry - Somerset
Established Member
There are some actions which have little or no money attached - eg: reducing voting age to 16, legislating for LGBTQ+ issues, changing planning regulations, etc. They may have little cost to government but impact (for better or worse) on both business and individuals.
Other changes need funding, not just comforting words. The "how" is a challenge as important as the "what"!
The Labour "mission driven government" includes generic "missions" that could have been included in any other party manifesto. Absent is any funding or credible explanation of "how":
- kickstart economic growth - more training, more teachers, set up export zones, better funding for research, etc etc
- make Britain a clean energy superpower - unblock planning constraints (cheap), fund British energy, incentives for private sector investment, etc etc
- take back our streets - more police, improved lighting, more sanctions (prison?) for offenders, education etc
- break down barriers to opportunity - funding for more childcare, tuition fees, grants for those studying, better 18+ education (universities, colleges, apprenticeships etc)
- build an NHS fit for the future - more doctors, nurses, equipment, hospital investment.
The Labour leadership and support teams are not academically illiterate or ill educated - they know precisely what the funding challenges are, and could make entirely plausible estimates of costs, actions and consequences. They have failed to do so.
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