Which is odd, because shedding that 'restraint' was one of the mythical benefits of leaving (so we could do crappy deals for the sake of doing deals with the likes of Australia to undermine our farming sector).
THE FOURTH OF JULY
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I think it will be in a major party's manifesto two elections from this one, and that party will win. I've long thought that the Tories would fix themselves and take us back in, but that is looking less likely if they get wiped out and Reform/NatCons achieve their objective. But if the LDs become the official opposition that could speed it up.
It's just not true. It's a brexiter complaint that the EU would not bend the 'club' rules to give special status to the UK as a third party nation.
It all goes back to this
I think it was the right decision long term and would have been more successful had covid not happened and the government actually acted upon the peoples vote and made things happen. The thing is we are an island nation and not French, culturally very different and the monarchs of the past knew how to handle the french like Henry V & George 111 . Where we went wrong was after WW2 Russia kept a lot of Germany as spoils of war so we should have kept Britanny or Normandy as a trophy and then we would have had more say in Europe.
Brexit has now become the excuse for the UKs demise and in reality it is not Brexit but the failure of succesive governments and breakdown of society and values that has got us into a race to the bottom.
I'd reverse that and say it's the failure of successive govts and the (consequent) breakdown of society that led to brexit. Thus brexit is just a continuation of decline.
Distinterior
Established Member
As I recall, ....We were not at War with Brittany or Normandy or any other part of France during WW2, they were our allies....So, on what basis would we have had any moral or legal right to have " kept" any part of their country as a "trophy"...?
Because if we had not got involved then the french would now be speaking German and lost everything.
Distinterior
Established Member
When some people use the expression to "move on", its comments like this that it wholeheartedly should be relevant to.
That makes the basis for the Brexit vote either you had, had enough of British government failures and wanted to be part of the EU to have better leadership or you thought the government failures were the result of the EU and so voted leave whilst the government itself seemed to use the EU as an excuse for everything. The real problem is that the west is being hamered by the east as they rise at our expense.
But all to many problems we face today are due to the decisions made in the past, understand those decisions and the reason for a problem becomes obvious, just look at the middle east.
Distinterior
Established Member
And you genuinely believe that partitioning & commandeering part of France after the war would have been an advantage for the UK...?
Staggering...!!
selectortone
Still waking up not dead in the morning
The question is - would the EU want us back?
Yes, in the blink of an eye to get revenue and fishing rights in UK waters.
RobinBHM
Established Member
I am not sure what could make brexit more successful
What things do you think the govt hasn't acted on and could've done to make things happen?
42% of UK exports go to the EU, it's our largest trade partner by a country mile, the only way I can see to make things better are to reduce trade barriers with the EU
Whilst an EU member the UK was able to trade globally, there aren't really any new opportunities, certainly none which replace frictionless trade benefits with a trade bloc of £16tr reachable by a 30 min train ride.
RobinBHM
Established Member
The EU would not consider UK rejoining without substantive evidence that it would not be able to be reversed. (Ie public referendum with substantive majority)
There are a few EU countries which prefer the UK not being a member as they can shape the EU which they couldn't do when UK influence prevented it.
Fishing rights is of very little interest to the EU other than France
UK membership fee is not a major consideration, brexit supporters tend to look at it as a zero sum game, but it's not. Brexit red tape costs more than the fee we paid.
The majority of English fishing rights are owned by foreign companies anyway.
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There will be no gain from staying as we are.
I think our past relationship with the EU has to be like a divorce and no going back, just move on. The problem is not the UK or the EU and both are victims of global forces from the East whose economic powerhouse is now unstopable. I was looking at printers, made in Vietnam, made in PRC, made in Thailand, made in Malaysia but nothing made in the west so we all like to keep cost down so would we all like a massive hike in prices by producing our own goods like printers ? I was amazed you could get a printer for £39, that is a lot of technology for almost nothing and how would the UK compete in that arena ?
sploo
Somewhat extinguished member
I still see no evidence for that (it being the right decision in the long term); indeed all evidence would appear to point to the contrary.
As noted pages ago in this thread, the economic damage caused by Covid likely masked some of the damage caused by Brexit.
I won't comment on Henry V; that's fully getting back into the Little Englander/Empire mentality; totally irrelevant in today's global economic climate.
sploo
Somewhat extinguished member
PRC et al can produce goods at cheap prices due to terrible working conditions and lack of rights for the population. You could do that here (indeed I suspect some in the Tory party would like to do that here); but it wouldn't exactly be a step forward.
Printers are a slightly unusual situation though (like razors); the initial item is basically a loss leader because they know you need to buy the consumables afterwards. Hence they can sell the printer/razor etc for an exceptionally low price to get you as a customer.
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