THE FOURTH OF JULY

[Keith Cocker]

Looks like threads run it's course!
Anyone one know the best way to sharpen a plane....!

Don’t read it then. Lots of us are enjoying the discussion and it remains respectful and interesting avoid personal attacks and ad hominems. The participants should be congratulated.

 

[sploo]

My old school chum Chris C, who played the guitar and sang while I accompanied him on the tin sandwich, made light of the injury he sustained in the course of his Saturday job, which left him blind in one eye, by reflecting that all the good bluesmen were blind, and now he was halfway there.

Did you call him "Chrs"? You know... because he lost an i?

(I'll get my coat)

 

[RobinBHM]

I understand the gripes of industry and businesses

“I don’t care brexit has seriously damaged our economy, our businesses and people’s livelihoods”

 

[Rhossydd]

nobody said that leaving the EU would not be without problems.

Nonsense. Leave EU said it would all be easy; "easiest deal in history" "sunlit uplands" "we hold all the cards" etc etc.
https://www.indy100.com/news/brexit-no-deal-quotes-boris-johnson-david-davis-dominic-raab-8463121

Similarly the idea the EU are 'punishing us' is ridiculous too. The hopeless tories managed to negotiate a terrible deal and make life and business really difficult for all of us. We haven't even seen the worst of it yet as they keep putting off full import controls, when that happens even more people will see what damage has been done.

 

[Distinterior]

You forgot the fishermen; nobody said that leaving the EU would not be without problems. It takes time to unpick the mess that is the EU membership and all the laws and restrictions it enforced. Sadly, the problems were exacerbated by Covid and slowed the process.

The UK is a better place and will continue to expand its trade with world countries. The EU decided, deliberately, to punish the UK to set an example to other EU nations. That will fade as new trade deals increase between the UK and individual member states. The EU states are suffering the same problems.

Getting back in now would be disastrous for the UK and for the party that managed it. Besides, the government made the decision based on the referendum and it would be a brave move to reverse that decision at this stage. Moving forward is the best and most workable option for the future.

I understand the gripes of industry and businesses but the country spoke.

You can keep repeating the same thing over & over again Scruples, ....but it wont make it true!

 

[Blackswanwood]

The EU decided, deliberately, to punish the UK to set an example to other EU nations. That will fade as new trade deals increase between the UK and individual member states.

How will that work? It seems you’ve overlooked a fairly fundamental point that individual members of the EU don’t do individual trade deals.

 

[RobinBHM]

I see Nigel Farage has seen on poll and is busy claiming they he is LOTO

Reform will get between 3 and 9 seats.


Why does the media allow narcissists so much airtime

 

[sploo]

You forgot the fishermen; nobody said that leaving the EU would not be without problems. It takes time to unpick the mess that is the EU membership and all the laws and restrictions it enforced. Sadly, the problems were exacerbated by Covid and slowed the process.

The UK is a better place and will continue to expand its trade with world countries. The EU decided, deliberately, to punish the UK to set an example to other EU nations. That will fade as new trade deals increase between the UK and individual member states. The EU states are suffering the same problems.

Getting back in now would be disastrous for the UK and for the party that managed it. Besides, the government made the decision based on the referendum and it would be a brave move to reverse that decision at this stage. Moving forward is the best and most workable option for the future.

I understand the gripes of industry and businesses but the country spoke.

Yes, that's true - the fishermen got screwed over too; thanks for pointing out another Brexit "win". Also worth looking up Farage's great record of his time on the fisheries committee when we was an MEP (to see just how much he actually cares).

"The UK is in a better place"... pretty much every metric on trade, economy, and current prospects would disagree with you.

The EU has not decided to punish the UK. The EU has applied third country rules to the UK as it's no longer a member - which is exactly what we voted for. The idea that we'll somehow get better trade deals with individual members is an absolute nonsense, that bears no resemblance to any sort of factual reality (despite being one of the hallucinations repeated by some).

I'm afraid your post is one of those "greatest hits" of pro-Brexit hallucinations; that were not true before the vote, continue to be false now, and will always be the nonsense fantasy of those disconnected from reality. Any available data on the state of the nation, and the rules of trade, should make that unquestionably clear.

 

[Distinterior]

I'm afraid your post is one of those "greatest hits" of pro-Brexit hallucinations; that were not true before the vote, continue to be false now, and will always be the nonsense fantasy of those disconnected from reality. Any available data on the state of the nation, and the rules of trade, should make that unquestionably clear.

In a nutshell.....Spot on!

 

[Keith Cocker]

Yes, that's true - the fishermen got screwed over too; thanks for pointing out another Brexit "win". Also worth looking up Farage's great record of his time on the fisheries committee when we was an MEP (to see just how much he actually cares).

"The UK is in a better place"... pretty much every metric on trade, economy, and current prospects would disagree with you.

The EU has not decided to punish the UK. The EU has applied third country rules to the UK as it's no longer a member - which is exactly what we voted for. The idea that we'll somehow get better trade deals with individual members is an absolute nonsense, that bears no resemblance to any sort of factual reality (despite being one of the hallucinations repeated by some).

I'm afraid your post is one of those "greatest hits" of pro-Brexit hallucinations; that were not true before the vote, continue to be false now, and will always be the nonsense fantasy of those disconnected from reality. Any available data on the state of the nation, and the rules of trade, should make that unquestionably clear.

Very well put.

 

[Rhossydd]

I'm afraid your post is one of those "greatest hits" of pro-Brexit hallucinations; that were not true before the vote, continue to be false now, and will always be the nonsense fantasy of those disconnected from reality.

One of the more worrying things brexit has revealed is that so many people keep repeating the same old lies they were duped with, despite being repeatedly proved wrong.

 

[sploo]

I see Nigel Farage has seen on poll and is busy claiming they he is LOTO

LOTO?

Lord Of The Overcredulous?

 

[sploo]

One of the more worrying things brexit has revealed is that so many people keep repeating the same old lies they were duped with, despite being repeatedly proved wrong.

It's easier to fool a man than to convince him he's been fooled.

 

[JSW]

LOTO?

Lord Of The Overcredulous?

Nah, Lost One Testicle, Ouch!

@Jameshow Spoke too soon dude, Game on!

 

[RobinBHM]

The EU decided, deliberately, to punish the UK to set an example to other EU nations

This is an interesting point, but I'm not sure the evidence shows it to be true.

When one side decides to "take back control" the other side also takes back control. The EU was therefore acting on behalf of its member states to get the best deal for them.

As I recall, the EU offered a number of things such as an agri food agreement, FOM for musicians etc, better cabotage arrangements and others. But the Johnson govt chose a deal with no alignment on anything for ideological reasons.


Sadly I don't think brexit supporters understand that the thing they hate: regulatory alignment, is also the thing that creates most of the benefits.

Brexit supporters chose divergence and in so doing caused 90% of all the trade barriers damage that has resulted.


I realise this is an old argument, but moving forward the Labour Party is highly likely to rebuild alignment with the EU to cut trade barriers

 

[wizkid2003]

Yes, that's true - the fishermen got screwed over too; thanks for pointing out another Brexit "win". Also worth looking up Farage's great record of his time on the fisheries committee when we was an MEP (to see just how much he actually cares).

"The UK is in a better place"... pretty much every metric on trade, economy, and current prospects would disagree with you.

The EU has not decided to punish the UK. The EU has applied third country rules to the UK as it's no longer a member - which is exactly what we voted for. The idea that we'll somehow get better trade deals with individual members is an absolute nonsense, that bears no resemblance to any sort of factual reality (despite being one of the hallucinations repeated by some).

I'm afraid your post is one of those "greatest hits" of pro-Brexit hallucinations; that were not true before the vote, continue to be false now, and will always be the nonsense fantasy of those disconnected from reality. Any available data on the state of the nation, and the rules of trade, should make that unquestionably clear.

Having read through all the posts on this thread and listened to both sides of the "Brexit" argument (I know...the thread has moved off topic a wee bit),I just wanted to add something.
I live in Southern Ireland and Brexit has massively affected us here also.
Everything Sploo has mentioned above is correct and anyone who thinks otherwise is deluded.
Brexit has been a shitshow. I work with people from U.K. /Great Britain regularly (basically anyone who had the potential to vote on Brexit) and not one....to a man/woman has said Brexit was a good idea....including people who voted to leave. All have said they didn't fully understand the implications of leaving and relied on those who they supposed did to inform them.
Now I ask anyone reading this not to start getting nit-picky and quote this or that or accuse me of not understanding or whatever.
This post is simply an outsiders view looking in.

 

[Distinterior]

One of the more worrying things brexit has revealed is that so many people keep repeating the same old lies they were duped with, despite being repeatedly proved wrong.

This is the biggest concern!....

It has never ceased to worry me that when clearly presented with facts, truth and evidence, some people are still believing they made the correct decision to vote Leave.

I am constantly reminded by my Wife, my friends & family that I need to "move on" from that decision to leave the EU, but practically every day, something comes along in my personal or professional life & I read statements such as Scruples has made and I feel the frustration start building up inside me yet again.

 

[Jameshow]

Don’t read it then. Lots of us are enjoying the discussion and it remains respectful and interesting avoid personal attacks and ad hominems. The participants should be congratulated.

Indeed I was have fun, after all it's a woodworking thread and it's felt like a lull in debate!

 

[Keith Cocker]

What has led us to where we are about to vote? Will Huttons analysis is spot on in my view.

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...z-truss-goodbye-and-good-riddance-to-all-that

 

[Chris152]

What has led us to where we are about to vote? Will Huttons analysis is spot on in my view.

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...z-truss-goodbye-and-good-riddance-to-all-that

Aye, that's a fine summary of where we are. Thanks for sharing.