THE FOURTH OF JULY

[TRITON]

Kissing all of your rights goodbye is not a clever thing to do.

I honestly can't believe the general public would readily agree to that if they could parallel any of it to themselves. But with a right wing media, full information will be thin on the ground.

Mind you, They got brexit done™

Didn't they ?

 

[Keith Cocker]

I think Reforms contract is sensable and is a long term framework to achieve a good outcome rather than the short term manifesto's of the other parties that want us to believe they can be delivered. Also Reform is not pretending it has any chance of wining, it accepts starmer has won but also can see that starmer needs to be kept in check which a conservative opposition would not do and then after we have all been through five years of starmer, well five years of labour as starmer may not still be around we might wake up and accept that for real change we need something other than labour or Conservative.


We have had human rights for years and they been upheld by the justice system in the UK, we do not need some EU bureaucrat with a grudge to tell us about human rights.


Name a single positive about the invasion of small boats full of young men who are apparently paying thousands for the privilege to get here, are they really paying upfront or just accepting a debt to be repaid once in the UK ? They are getting rid of paperwork on the crossing to hide there true identity and our border force is not fully able to check many out so we have many unknowns and if you think how difficult it is for some people living in the UK to make ends meet with jobs then how do you think these young men are going to make a living. Nothing wrong with controlled immigration but you need to be selective like the Australians and only accept what you have a need for.

 

[sploo]

View attachment 183287

He (Farage) also didn't bother to turn up to meetings when he was a member of the EU fisheries commission (1 just out of 42 meetings as far as I recall)... whilst obviously taking his salary and expenses. Tells you how much he supports the British fishing industry too.

The man is a career charlatan and grifter. I don't actually blame him for it - he's done well out of it. What annoys me is how the media have repeatedly put him in front of the viewing population and presented him as a credible voice; that's where the damage has been done.

 

[Spectric]

What annoys me is how the media have repeatedly put him in front of the viewing population and presented him as a credible voice;

They have no option but to do this, all political parties have equal rights to representation and if a presenter mentions candidate x in any place they also have to mention all the other candidates standing to ensure impartiallity. You have to look at all leaders in relation to the others and not as a singularity, here they are all credable except Sunak because he is the only one who has been in a position to actually do anything whilst all the others are making promises of what they might do if they win. It all goes back to the fact that none of the parties if they won could actually do what they are promising because we just do not have the money unless various taxes get increased which would not be popular or we start to cut expenses which would need to be done surgically otherwise again not popular. If you dig deeper then there are ways to raise revenue but it needs the will power to do it because it would be fairly drastic.

Apparently the guy who is managing the UK football team is on £100K a week, even on 45% tax he is on more in one week than most are on a year so how bad would increasing this level of income to 70% taxation as I am sure you could easily survive on over £35K a week.

 

[Jameshow]

On thing that this thread (and especially the last few pages) has really reinforced is how populists (such as Farage) thrive on creating fear and anger in the population; where that fear and anger is based on fundamental misunderstandings of the bogeymen put in front of them (be that the EU, the ECHR, immigrants etc). It's hardly a new problem I know, but it does illustrate how tragically successful it is as a strategy.

I don't think that's true, they understand the concerns of a forgotten working class and know how to communicate and sympathise with them yet all the while being completely in a different world, as did BJ and trump etc.
They offer soundbites of we can do this but in reality they won't....
They felt let down by the Tories and labour so who do they turn too.....

 

[sploo]

They have no option but to do this, all political parties have equal rights to representation and if a presenter mentions candidate x in any place they also have to mention all the other candidates standing to ensure impartiallity.

I was meaning more historically; where Farage has been a very regular guest on programs such as Question Time; even when he was neither a standing MP or even a member of a party with any elected MPs. I can't think of anyone else in the same situation that's been put in front of the public so often. Obviously it's been done because he's "entertaining", but in politics I don't want entertaining, I want competent.

I don't think that's true, they understand the concerns of a forgotten working class and know how to communicate and sympathise with them yet all the while being completely in a different world, as did BJ and trump etc.
They offer soundbites of we can do this but in reality they won't....
They felt let down by the Tories and labour so who do they turn too.....

I don't think we're disagreeing. Communicate and sympathise, and thriving on fear and anger, can be the same thing (and in the case of the populists; it usually is).

 

[RobinBHM]

Mind you, They got brexit done™

Didn't they ?

yes it got 5 Conservative PMs and the economy done too

 

[curryjunkie]

Ho

They have no option but to do this, all political parties have equal rights to representation and if a presenter mentions candidate x in any place they also have to mention all the other candidates standing to ensure impartiallity. You have to look at all leaders in relation to the others and not as a singularity, here they are all credable except Sunak because he is the only one who has been in a position to actually do anything whilst all the others are making promises of what they might do if they win. It all goes back to the fact that none of the parties if they won could actually do what they are promising because we just do not have the money unless various taxes get increased which would not be popular or we start to cut expenses which would need to be done surgically otherwise again not popular. If you dig deeper then there are ways to raise revenue but it needs the will power to do it because it would be fairly drastic.

Apparently the guy who is managing the UK football team is on £100K a week, even on 45% tax he is on more in one week than most are on a year so how bad would increasing this level of income to 70% taxation as I am sure you could easily survive on over £35K a week.there is no impartiality, How come Farage appeared 35 times on question time when he wasn't even in Parliament? The greens or any other independent MP's were not fairly represented. Who decided to put right wing think tank spokesman on or that dull woman who's shagging tice every other week?,you only see what you want to see, I'm not going to get personal but you really should get some help..

 

[Scruples]

So it turns out Donald Farage thinks his mate Vlad is a top bloke

I don't think he said that.

 

[Keith Cocker]

So an "honest statement of intent" is good even if utterly impossible and largely irrelevant?
I suppose it makes as much sense as Starmer's promise of "change", without saying quite what, why or how.
But then - are they all lying anyway?
The Farage approach: “The key to success is sincerity. If you can fake that you've got it made.” (George Burns.)

Farage tends to the Goebbels approach “Repeat a lie often enough and it becomes the truth”

 

[Jacob]

.......c.

"Illegal" migration covers those who arrive in the UK without permission and thus outside the criteria established for approval.

This is a popular piece of absolute nonsense.
Everybody arrives in the UK "without permission" and has to go through a verification process on arrival. You have obviously never travelled abroad and had to come back through passport control.
Even if you land on a beach from a dinghy there will be a reception committee of one sort or another.
The chances of anybody making it without detection is extremely low, in fact the opposite is often the case whereby people who are entitled to live here are let down by bureaucracy and deported, or not allowed back in. Windrush etc.

 

[RobinBHM]

I don't think he said that.

Nigel Farage: Vladimir Putin is the world leader I most admire​

“Mr Farage was asked by GQ magazine’s new interviewer Alastair Campbell, Tony Blair’s former spin chief, which world leader he most admired. “As an operator, but not as a human being, I would say Putin,”


https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...s-the-world-leader-i-most-admire-9224781.html

 

[Keith Cocker]

I think Reforms contract is sensable and is a long term framework to achieve a good outcome rather than the short term manifesto's of the other parties that want us to believe they can be delivered. Also Reform is not pretending it has any chance of wining, it accepts starmer has won but also can see that starmer needs to be kept in check which a conservative opposition would not do and then after we have all been through five years of starmer, well five years of labour as starmer may not still be around we might wake up and accept that for real change we need something other than labour or Conservative.


We have had human rights for years and they been upheld by the justice system in the UK, we do not need some EU bureaucrat with a grudge to tell us about human rights.


Name a single positive about the invasion of small boats full of young men who are apparently paying thousands for the privilege to get here, are they really paying upfront or just accepting a debt to be repaid once in the UK ? They are getting rid of paperwork on the crossing to hide there true identity and our border force is not fully able to check many out so we have many unknowns and if you think how difficult it is for some people living in the UK to make ends meet with jobs then how do you think these young men are going to make a living. Nothing wrong with controlled immigration but you need to be selective like the Australians and only accept what you have a need for.

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/russia-ukraine-nigel-farage-vladimir-putin-b2567076.html

 

[RobinBHM]

I think Reforms contract is sensable and is a long term framework to achieve a good outcome

I’m really hoping this is satirical

 

[niall Y]

MOR

Nigel Farage: Vladimir Putin is the world leader I most admire​

. “As an operator, but not as a human being, I would say Putin,”


https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...s-the-world-leader-i-most-admire-9224781.html

So, in context, more a "backhanded compliment" than anything else?

 

[sploo]

MOR

So, in context, more a "backhanded compliment" than anything else?

Backhanded, but telling. One thing fascists admire is other fascists. The desire for extreme authoritarian control over the population is highly attractive to that mindset.

 

[Adam W.]

I honestly can't believe the general public would readily agree to that if they could parallel any of it to themselves. But with a right wing media, full information will be thin on the ground.

Mind you, They got brexit done™

Didn't they ?

Done in more ways than one is a good way to describe it.

 

[Jacob]

The French are getting things sorted: https://www.theguardian.com/world/a...oin-forces-to-beat-far-right-electoral-threat
That's what we need here but no chance: unfortunately the Labour party has been taken over by a feeble minded right wing faction.

 

[niall Y]

One thing fascists admire is other fascists.

A bit of a "sweeping generalisation" here. I believe that arch fascist, Hitler detested Franco, and though Mussolini was a buffoon.

 

[Terry - Somerset]

This is a popular piece of absolute nonsense.
Everybody arrives in the UK "without permission" and has to go through a verification process on arrival. You have obviously never travelled abroad and had to come back through passport control.
Even if you land on a beach from a dinghy there will be a reception committee of one sort or another.
The chances of anybody making it without detection is extremely low, in fact the opposite is often the case whereby people who are entitled to live here are let down by bureaucracy and deported, or not allowed back in. Windrush etc.

There may be a subtle semantic distinction between "entry" and "immigration" - but it is an offence to knowingly arriving to the UK without entry clearance

Illegal entry and related offences​

Section 24 of the 1971 Act contained provisions for illegal entry offences that were summary only. Most of these offences remain on the statute book, but section 24 has been amended by the Nationality and Borders Act (NABA)

Section 24(D1) Arriving without entry clearance​

A person who is a non-British/Irish national or who does not have a right of abode, will normally require entry clearance (visa) prior to arriving in the UK. The provision now makes it an immigration offence knowingly to arrive in the UK where entry clearance is required under immigration rules. The evidence will need to address that no valid entry clearance was issued by the Secretary of State. It is for the defence to prove that the person had valid entry clearance.

The legalities seems fairly clear to me - although any sanctions to be applied should rightly depend on the merits of any asylum claim.