The Chop, Sky History (Sky 123)Thuesday 15th 9:00

[pcb1962]

He has a large 88 on his face, it's commonly known that 88 is shorthand for Heil Hitler.

Judging from everything I've read on this forum and the other that I frequent, it is not commonly known at all.

 

[Daniel2]

Judging from everything I've read on this forum and the other that I frequent, it is not commonly known at all.

I certainly didn't know it before, either.
However, that cannot excuse it. I think we can safely assume that
the guy (LGBT++ et al), knew it's meaning full well whilst choosing
to have it indelibly marked in a very visible place.
Therefore, for his part, it is a very clear statement to the outside
world. In itself that is reprehensible. The statement represents a
very dangerous road to be on.

 

[Nelsun]

Nelsun,

with the exception of the universally known swastika, I doubt very much that most people would know a Nazi symbol if they fell over it and it said "Sieg Heil!" to them. That sort of esoterica is not widely known although I'll cough to having read an explanation of where Combat 18 got its name from. So my obsessive saddos remark stands.

That doesn't address those that can and will know what the symbols mean: those at the suffering end and those inducing the suffering. I wouldn't call either "obsessive saddos".

 

[TJC]

Judging from everything I've read on this forum and the other that I frequent, it is not commonly known at all.

Perhaps you're right. I think there's certainly a generational component.

However, searching Google for just '88' and every result on the first page refers to this code, so pretty poor for it to have got through.

*edit* and a London bus route.....!

 

[Cabinetman]

Also a type of German artillery gun. "Don’t mention the war I did once but I think I got away with it all right" – classic
Cleese. Ian

 

[TheUnicorn]

I feel sorry for the other contestants. One of them has already won this (it must have been filmed pre-lockdown) and can claim to be “Britain’s Best Woodworker”. If you were trying to use the opportunity of being on the programme to springboard your career, it’s now been dashed.
Whatever the rights or wrongs of the programme, if you were just starting a woodwork career, a massive amount of publicity wouldn’t hurt a bit.

I agree, I assume as it has cost sky history a couple of million, that they will put together some edited version, easy to do if 'the woodsman' went out at an early round, less easy if he got quite far through. i assume he didn't win as that would have been in the headlines.

 

[Steliz]

..so for me that means that he is capable of keeping his suspected politics to himself..

He has them tattooed all over his face, in what way is he keeping it to himself?

The best thing is to keep politics for election time.

The Nazis are not a political party, they are a hate group.

..most folk wouldn't have recognised anything on his face..
..a possible martyr has been created for RW extremists.
Now if he'd actually done or said anything unpleasant, that would have been a different kettle of fish entirely.

It doesn't matter whether anyone recognises them or not, the fact that he has Nazi and White Supremacist symbols tattooed on his face is enough.
He won't be made a martyr because he isn't dead, or likely to be just from this exposure. He would more likely be made a hero by the right wing extremists.
He has done something unpleasant - he has Nazi and White Supremacist symbols tattooed on his face and then gone on TV to promote it.

It seems to me that you are being wilfully blind with a motive to either take fence sitting to the absolute extreme or just standard internet trolling.

 

[pcb1962]

he has Nazi and White Supremacist symbols tattooed on his face and then gone on TV to promote it.

I think he went on TV to showcase his woodworking skills, just the same as the other contestants did.
I very much doubt that he thought "Here's an opportunity to promote white supremacy".

 

[artie]

Did he have 73 as well?

He just might be a CB Radio fan.

73 & 88

ten ten we're gone.

 

[Steliz]

I think he went on TV to showcase his woodworking skills, just the same as the other contestants did.
I very much doubt that he thought "Here's an opportunity to promote white supremacy".

You're right, I didn't mean 'actively' promote but anyone looking at his face is subjected to the 'advertising'.

 

[Trevanion]

UKW confuses me sometimes...

The discussion of whether a Neo-Nazi/White Supremacist is entitled to be on TV provided he doesn't mention any politics and whether people should be allowed to paint swastikas on their homes - Fine by us

Remotely questioning a moderator action about a light-hearted joke - HOW VERY WELL DARE YOU! DELETED POST AND A SLAP ON THE WRIST FOR YOU! READ RULE 11!

 

[craigs]

I'm gonna need more poporn.

 

[Droogs]

Have some of mine

 

[Ttrees]

Aye I feel sorry for the folks who might have got some exposure from the show,
Hopefully they get some kind of payoff somehow.

Maybe it was just a coincidence though
These things happen you know

 

[Lazurus]

Points To Prove

I was wondering if there were any offences under the public order act however each shows that there needs to be an intention to stir up hatred, I think that would be very difficult to prove combined with his friendly nature towards the other crafts people on the show. date and location displayed written material which was threatening intending to stir up religious hatred or hatred on the grounds of sexual orientation

 

[Racers]

I'm gonna need more poporn.

I'm still waiting for my cake!

Pete

 

[RogerS]

You're right, I didn't mean 'actively' promote but anyone looking at his face is subjected to the 'advertising'.

Not really. Given the fast editing these days, I suspect that most of the camera angles will be on what he's actually doing with his hands. SIATC. IMO.

 

[DBT85]

You're slightly misrepresenting what I posted: most folk wouldn't have recognised anything on his face just by normal "looking" - witness the general reaction on here to the allegations and I know I certainly didn't - therefore the people who recognised what they did must be obsessive saddos to conduct what must have been an almost forensic examination of the bloke's face, hence my canine comparison.

I'm not misrepresenting anything. Because you and some other people don't know that a thing is something used by bigots, racists, homophobes etc to hide in plain sight doesn't make people that DO know these things saddos. The whole point of these symbols is to hide their true feelings and wave them in the faces of minorities, jews, etc etc without some of them knowing that they think Hitler was actually a really nice bloke, had great ideas in murdering millions, torturing thousands and generally being "a bit of a nob".

Not knowing that these symbols are embedded in the ideals of utter scum is not a problem. That is their very purpose. To be insidious, to live and breath and HIDE among normal sensible people. If they wanted to be "out" they would write Sieg Heil on their heads, have swasticas etc. They don't.

As for innocent until proven guilty, he has committed no crime. He is free to cover himself in anything he wants to. The rest of the world doesn't have to tolerate it, be associated with it etc.

I imagine Sky will just re edit everything and remove him entirely from the show where possible.

 

[Jake]

- therefore the people who recognised what they did must be obsessive saddos to conduct what must have been an almost forensic examination of the bloke's face,

You got tatts Andy?

 

[Andy Kev.]

He has them tattooed all over his face, in what way is he keeping it to himself?


The Nazis are not a political party, they are a hate group.


It doesn't matter whether anyone recognises them or not, the fact that he has Nazi and White Supremacist symbols tattooed on his face is enough.
He won't be made a martyr because he isn't dead, or likely to be just from this exposure. He would more likely be made a hero by the right wing extremists.
He has done something unpleasant - he has Nazi and White Supremacist symbols tattooed on his face and then gone on TV to promote it.

It seems to me that you are being wilfully blind with a motive to either take fence sitting to the absolute extreme or just standard internet trolling.

FWIW I've read a fair bit about Naziism in an attempt to understand how such a political movement could emerge, thrive and nearly come out on top and surprisingly it is very difficult to come up with a brief summary of what defines how monstrous it was. To brand it a "hate group" won't do, if you're talking about the original Nazis. As you get nearer to an understanding of the historical truth, it becomes clear that it was far more complex and far more disturbing than that. But that said, it's clear that your comment refers to a grouping in modern Britain and when dealing with the ill-educated, rather moronic people involved, it's an unsuitable tag which nonetheless serves a purpose.

I tend to think that wearing a couple of pro-Nazi tattoos (cryptic or clear) is more an indicator of inarticulate cluelessness than anything else. I doubt very much if the average "Nazi" in the UK would be able to tell you anything about what Hitler stood for or the horrors which his regime involved. I suspect that for them Hitler is little more than a convenient symbol or brand which carries the added attraction (for them) that any hint of support for him and his movement is regarded as being very naughty indeed and we all know that a lot of young, agressive men love being thought of as bad boys.

Ultimately in poltical terms, they are a bit of a joke and I cannot imagine the circumstances in which the general public will ever come to take them seriously. Although clearly it is no joke if you are a black bloke who is unfortunate enough to get a kicking from them. What they probably need is resocialising as opposed to ostracising.

The bloke in question seems to be a good example. He came across as being decent enough, assuming you could get past the dubious aesthetic effect of his facial artwork and assuming that you failed to recognise any of the symbology. The fact that he was friendly to the black bloke makes me think that he may be a little "confused" (to put it kindly). How does he reconcile his instincts as a human being with the ideology which he apparently embraces? It is of course highly unlikely that he understands anything about Nazi ideology (see above).

The whole thing is compounded by the kind of people who froth at the mouth in their "anti-Naziism". It seems to me that at best they are well-meaning but as historically clueless as the people they oppose. At worst they are the equal but opposite of the original Nazis - think SWP.

The conclusion I've come to over the years is that both ends of political extremism are incompatible with a liberal democratic society which spans centre left to centre right. Both extremist roads lead ultimately to death camps or gulags. It really doesn't make much difference if its far right cyanide in your lungs or a far left bullet in the back of your neck that helps you shrug of this mortal coil because they are two sides of the same coin. In moral and ethical terms I can't see any difference between the cancel culture types who prevent academics from speaking and the book-burning brownshirt hordes.

"A plague on both your houses" seems to catch it for me and I suspect for most of the British public. At the moment the hard left is the bigger threat to western democracy than is the hard right because it is in the ascendancy but I've no doubt that the hard right will re-emerge one day but it won't be in the guise of overly tattood, ill-educated young men.