The Cheapest Energy So Far

[John Brown]

They use 2 x 2 hour periods where the grid demand isn't as high as the max daily demand. They use 09:30 to 11:30 and 22:00 to midnight to discount the peal price to 13.37p. I would guess that people that don't have solar / battery it will be quite attractive for washing machine, tumble dryer, dish washer etc. also good to give electric heating a boost.

Peal, rather than peak. Irrelevant, really, but I get the impression that PP thought you were saying the time periods you specified were classed as peak, when I understood it to mean that those periods would "normally" be in the non-discounted band, but we're being offered at a cheaper rate.

I feel like I'm confusing the issue even more now, with my muddy explanation...

 

[Phil Pascoe]

OP - I didn't say you or your post was weird, just that it's just weird they class those times as peak. The spikes in usage are much earlier in both the morning and the evening. Yes, those reductions are useful but that's not what I'm querying. Octopus for some odd reason choose my night rate to be from 11pm - 12am then 1am - 7am. I don't know why 12am - 1am should be full rate.

 

[johnb80]

OP - I didn't say you or your post was weird, just that it's just weird they class those times as peak. The spikes in usage are much earlier in both the morning and the evening. Yes, those reductions are useful but that's not what I'm querying. Octopus for some odd reason choose my night rate to be from 11pm - 12am then 1am - 7am. I don't know why 12am - 1am should be full rate.

Understood.

It's really that most energy suppliers have two ranges, peak and off peak and Tomato have added a third range kind of mid peak or a discounted period during the conventional peak time. I feel it's useful for many, not for me because I only run on the 5p off peak rate

 

[johnb80]

Peal, rather than peak. Irrelevant, really, but I get the impression that PP thought you were saying the time periods you specified were classed as peak, when I understood it to mean that those periods would "normally" be in the non-discounted band, but we're being offered at a cheaper rate.

Aye thats another way to explain it.

I feel like I'm confusing the issue even more now, with my muddy explanation...

Not at all, thank you

 

[Oldman]

Being quite interested in this new offering from Tomato I set out to see just how much cheaper it could be for me. Currently my solar and batteries are with Octopus on Flux tariff. I used a full year's worth of figures from Flux import and export to gain some idea of how much cheaper Tomato could be.
Maths and spreadsheets are not my strongest point so I did use octopus compare App to shift the burden some. It allows you to directly compare flux with any tariff you input.
So I had £545 import from flux in the last 12 months and £193 from the export to flux. Tomato import cost would have been £264 over the same period.
So £545-£264= saving of £281 but subtract my export of £193 (as tomato dont do export) leaves £87 then add *SEG payments of £42 leaves a final number £130 better off with tomato, which is 36p/day.
Also as the smart electric meter would be with tomato, Octopus would not be able to read the SEG export or the smart gas meter so both those would need to be read monthly.
Oh Tomato is a 12 month fixed contract with no get out costs.

*You cant have flux export only and need to switch to SEG which is paid at 4.1p/kWh

In my case the faffing about changing stuff was just too much and I have elected to stay put. Maybe I have too much disposable pension even without the winter fuel payment and the October imminent hike in fuel costs, maybe I will regret it down the line. I ALWAYS chose the wrong checkout queue so maybe so.

 

[johnb80]

Being quite interested in this new offering from Tomato I set out to see just how much cheaper it could be for me. Currently my solar and batteries are with Octopus on Flux tariff. I used a full year's worth of figures from Flux import and export to gain some idea of how much cheaper Tomato could be.
Maths and spreadsheets are not my strongest point so I did use octopus compare App to shift the burden some. It allows you to directly compare flux with any tariff you input.
So I had £545 import from flux in the last 12 months and £193 from the export to flux. Tomato import cost would have been £264 over the same period.
So £545-£264= saving of £281 but subtract my export of £193 (as tomato dont do export) leaves £87 then add *SEG payments of £42 leaves a final number £130 better off with tomato, which is 36p/day.

You can export elsewhere, my export has stayed with Octopus and according to their customer services it can stay there on 15p kWh

Also as the smart electric meter would be with tomato, Octopus would not be able to read the SEG export or the smart gas meter so both those would need to be read monthly.

It doesnt work like that, the readings can still be read by the supplying companies.

Oh Tomato is a 12 month fixed contract with no get out costs.

Correct and no restrictions like with Octopus

*You cant have flux export only and need to switch to SEG which is paid at 4.1p/kWh

My export tariff renewed 4 days ago at the same rate.

In my case the faffing about changing stuff was just too much and I have elected to stay put. Maybe I have too much disposable pension even without the winter fuel payment and the October imminent hike in fuel costs, maybe I will regret it down the line. I ALWAYS chose the wrong checkout queue so maybe so.

Absolutely your choice, 15p export may make the numbers look even more favourable?

 

[Oldman]

Well John, Octopus seem to change the rules as it suits.

Here is a quote from todays Octopus email. "In terms of the export this would be switched to Smart export guarantee, as we would no longer be able to communicate with your smart meter as this will be communicating with Tomato instead of us due to the import."
He went on to say "Unfortunately, we will have a similar issue with your gas, as this also requires a connection to your electric smart meter, so whilst we can keep this you would need to submit the readings manually."

Outgoing Octopus would @15p mean a saving of £215 or 59p/day.
Tempting me again!

 

[johnb80]

Well John, Octopus seem to change the rules as it suits.

Here is a quote from todays Octopus email. "In terms of the export this would be switched to Smart export guarantee, as we would no longer be able to communicate with your smart meter as this will be communicating with Tomato instead of us due to the import."

I went live on Tomato on 1st September:-

He went on to say "Unfortunately, we will have a similar issue with your gas, as this also requires a connection to your electric smart meter, so whilst we can keep this you would need to submit the readings manually."

oh dear, how could this happen?

Outgoing Octopus would @15p mean a saving of £215 or 59p/day.
Tempting me again!

You have to make your own mind up, I'm a newbie with Tomato and it may all go wrong but in my view the savings are too great to ignore and I'm pretty hacked off with Octopus as you know.

 

[Sachakins]

@Oldman
How did impact of reduced standing charge factor have towards your calculated savings

 

[Oldman]

@Oldman
How did impact of reduced standing charge factor have towards your calculated savings

I'm really not sure if I or the octopus compare app factored that in but lets say not, the difference is £51/yr add that to the £215 saving already factored, so £266/yr or 73p/day savings.
Thats assuming Octopus will not offer the 12m flux export fixed @ 15p/kWh.

 

[Oldman]

So Octopus have just emailed me the new tariff costs from 1st October, this made me look again at Tomato Energy but this time I used the 6 low or no sun winter months to cost it and that swung it.
I export very little from October to March, most goes to charge my 20kw of batteries for self use, so loosing the Export tariff over those months is nothing compared with the gain from 6hrs at 5p/kWh daily.
In the next 6 months, (my switch goes live on 30th September) I hope to be mainly grid free and if Tomato don't fail in that period they may just have an export tariff developed to keep me interested. Otherwise it will be time to consider switching again back to Octopus for the summer and an export tariff that pays more than 4.1p/kWh SEG.

 

[Sideways]

All this chat prompted me to review Tomato lifestyle as well.
Being self sufficient on solar most of the year, the interest was because of the 5p rate for those overnight hours when the solar drops off over winter. 5 hrs is more than long enough to fill my storage battery to take us through the next day.
The big catch is the much increased standing charge.
I figured I'd benefit from switching for the 4 (3?) winter months only with a net saving of about £40. I'd still need gas for heating and using overnight electricity to heat a tank of water each night is dearer than doing it with gas.
Not worth the disruption at this stage. With heat pumps running entirely off stored energy, absolutely would be.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Well, I'm changing from 17/10. Prompted in part by Octopus customer service's being non existent.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Incidentally I find their sign off - "Love and power" - condescending and irritating.

 

[Sideways]

Incidentally I find their sign off - "Love and power" - condescending and irritating.

Marketing types trying to be cool and creative can be really annoying !

 

[Oldman]

Several things to note with Tomato, they just do not answer emails. The myWatts site that they have yet to finish or make an app from to show your usage and more importantly time slots you used said power in, is unfinished at best. I currently have it showing me an 8 day week and a 13 month year. Daily use is so far working in 30min slots and seems correct.
They don't offer gas or export.
They do answer the phone.
They are overwhelmed by the take up.
The Bright app, a free monitor of usage does work and seems to show correct your Tomato usage, you can set your own tariffs too. It also works with Octopus gas usage for me. You can register with Glowmarkt to download all your DCC data down to 30min slots to check that Tomato are sending the correct bills out. I don't think anyone has had a monthly bill from them yet. I hope they have rich pockets or they will run out of money if they don't get some user costs back soon enough to pay the wholesalers.
Octopus watch continues to work and supply me gas daily usage numbers, no elec of course.
Chameleon IHD supplied by Octopus with a meter change 2yrs ago continues to work on both gas and electric with the exception that the Electric pricing must be ignored.
My solar Export is floating with octopus, I need to get it moved to somewhere offering more than 4.1p per kWh or just ignore it for now as I don't have a big array and in winter most of what I generate I use. I am hoping Tomato sort themselves out and start an export tariff before spring, otherwise I may switch back to Octopus for the summer.
So far charging my batteries overnight at 5p/kWh and running on them and whatever solar is generated seems to be the right choice and I am comfortable with the switch, it went smoothly.

 

[John Hughes01]

Can someone put me straight regarding the new Energy Cap. The term "PriceCap" implies that this is the highest price permitted. However,do the energy companies see this as an invitation to simply slap the max price on the customer even though wholesale energy prices have gone down. I appreciate that the price cap is fixed early so cannot reflect the prices on the day . Tell me I have got it wrong.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Well, I'm changing from 17/10. Prompted in part by Octopus customer service's being non existent.

So far, so is Tomato's. I changed yesterday and other than telling me a DD had been set up, but not how much it will be or when it goes through. Details of tariffs, but no actual prices. I emailed about a Smartmeter and have yet to get a reply. They haven't even asked for a meter reading.

 

[Oldman]

Some interesting reading here https://www.facebook.com/groups/1320707432667481

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I can't read that without joining and for some reason it won't let me join.
A bit worrying so far, my account has been moved from Octopus, but I have had no communication from Tomato other than to tell me a D.D. has been set up. I don't know the account number, I don't know the unit prices and I don't know how much the D.D. will be or when it will be taken. I've enquired about a Smartmeter and had no reply. I thought Octopus customer care was poor, but Tomato's is non existent. I'll phone them later.