Tablesaw safety

[Lons]

they let tiny little kids roam all over the seats while driving.

Last time was in Paphos although a number of years ago I saw a kid of no more than 10 years actually driving or at least steering a clapped out Lada. :roll:

 

[user22161]

There is no job that can be performed on the TS that cannot be sensibly guarded. So why take the risk?

Mate of mine severed two fingers after the saw was switched off. Reached across the blade to retrieve cut piece and didn't realise the blade was still spinning. Old saw, no brake.

 

[no idea]

Which Bosch tablesaw have you got? The GTS-10XC has a riving knife that can be lowered when stowing the saw away and it can be raised so that you get the full use of the blade for a 75mm cut with the guard (this movement is separate to the normal rise and fall which occurs when you raise or lower the blade).

 

[Doug71]

This won't be popular but I think they should remove the mitre slots from table saws :shock:

Most of the accidents happen when people are using home made jigs and sleds, that is when guards are removed and fingers get close to the blade.

 

[TheTiddles]

I don’t yet own a table saw and every time I use one elsewhere I am very apprehensive of them. It’s not to say they are unsafe; I’m just not familiar with them and their big spinning blades.

I find this topic very interesting as over here in the UK we seem to follow the view that additional guarding is good but I don’t think I’ve ever seen a crown guard on a table saw in the states. I wonder how accident rates compare in like for like situations?

Last time I looked, USA had about 6x the number of industrial accidents. Now there will be differences in counting and classification etc... and I've seen fingers, hands and arms lost in the UK too as well as people using shortcuts that I would instantaneously fire someone who worked for me for doing, but in general I have found the lack of value placed on human life (and animal) in the USA, absolutely astonishing by the standards of modern civilised society (I.e. Those of Westen Europe).

Aidan

 

[Lons]

This won't be popular but I think they should remove the mitre slots from table saws :shock:

Most of the accidents happen when people are using home made jigs and sleds, that is when guards are removed and fingers get close to the blade.

Just interested Doug, where did you get the stats for that?

 

[TheTiddles]

This won't be popular but I think they should remove the mitre slots from table saws :shock:

Most of the accidents happen when people are using home made jigs and sleds, that is when guards are removed and fingers get close to the blade.

That's a good observation, why not go a bit further and remove the blade too, to improve safety? You can use mitre slots with factory fitted guards just fine, and if people insist on ignoring common sense and the instruction manual and not retrofitting additional guards... what else can we do?

Prudent risk taking is essential learning and the HSE actually says that in its guidance, as for dimwits with power tools... At least in general they only hurt themselves.

I'm very big on H&S, the important thing is to know what's actually dangerous. Mitre slots, not dangerous, mitre slot plus removed guards plus idiot using it is just an "accident" waiting to happen, though we all know it's no accident, it's an on-purpose.

Aidan

 

[Steve Maskery]

This won't be popular but I think they should remove the mitre slots from table saws :shock:

Most of the accidents happen when people are using home made jigs and sleds, that is when guards are removed and fingers get close to the blade.

You won't be surprised to hear that I disagree

That is throwing the baby out with the bathwater. A well designed jig, of any sort, INCREASES safety, accuracy and repeatability, it does not make operations more dangerous. If it does, it is not a good jig and should be avoided. Tablesaws are potentially dangerous enough, even when used properly, without increasing the risk further by doing something stupid with them!

 

[Doug71]

This won't be popular but I think they should remove the mitre slots from table saws :shock:

Most of the accidents happen when people are using home made jigs and sleds, that is when guards are removed and fingers get close to the blade.

Just interested Doug, where did you get the stats for that?

Only my experience from watching Youtube, lol!

It makes me cringe a lot of the jigs etc I see people using and how close they get digits to the blade.

To me a table saw is for ripping timber, guard and riving knife in place, use two push sticks and you can't go wrong. People do stuff on the table saw which would be better done with a router, plunge saw or they should buy a proper sliding table saw.

I know some of us can make safe jigs etc but not all can.

 

[Lons]

Ah ok
I'm with Steve on the use of jigs. Many of the youtube videos are american and we all know that mostly they never have a guard of any kind. :roll:

Although I do have a crosscut jig it's rarely used tbh as I have a router table attatched to my tablesaw as well as bansaw and sliding mitre saw but not everyone has those so why not use a well designed jig.

The only way to make something "idiot" proof is to stop the "idiot" using it!

:lol: :lol: :lol: why does the word check change idi*ot to silly? :roll:

 

[Doug71]

I used to have a 20 " Wadkin table saw with a mitre slot about 4" from the blade and a little mitre gauge that ran in the slot. I could never imagine using the gauge that close to the blade, don't think anyone would, think that is what put me off jigs etc.

The saw was only used for ripping so had a low tooth count blade in which made it look even scarier, that saw got a lot of respect. I look at my little plunge saw blade and it looks like a toy in comparison, thing is touch it when it's spinning and it will take off your finger just the same.

I don't think a lot of people give table saws the respect they deserve, daft thing is blades look less dangerous spinning at 5000rpm compared to when they are stopped and you can see the teeth.

 

[chaoticbob]

Thanks for replies. I am convinced - the crown guard is now in place! What resonated most is that attention can wander and although I feel that I am working safely by standing out of the 'line of fire' and using push sticks I can't be sure that I won't get distracted or complacent and reach over the blade. The only workshop injury I've had so far was inflicted by an angle grinder which I was using for carving - it was going really well, I thought I was completely in control of the tool, then I was distracted by something for about a millisecond, it kicked and I now have a groove in my left kneecap. It happened so damned fast!

no idea - mine is the GTS 10J which hasn't the facility for independent adjustment of the blade and riving knife, but I think I can work around it by making a new knife or knives.

Robin.

 

[Inspector]

...... or they should buy a proper sliding table saw.

I'm going to ask given the number of people that grumble at the cost of a cheap bench top worksite saw, sputter and convulse at the cost of a good cabinet saw, how on earth would you convince them to get a slider not to mention making a shop large enough to fit one?

A good cabinet saw is the most versatile woodworking machine but to use it you must have the knowledge to use it safely. I'd love to get a nice juicy slider but it is out of my reach. I avoid like the plague those bench top units though. Since so many rely on those questionable YouTube videos to teach them instead of working along side an experienced woodworker they will learn the hard way no matter what machine they operate.

A good table saw like the SawStop comes with a riving knife and a blade guard with anti-kickback pawls which can be changed in seconds without tools. No excuse to use it without if the cut allows. If those guards won't allow the work then, as mentioned earlier, alternate guards need to be made and used. Even with my saw having a blade brake I still use guards, push sticks and as many safe working practices as I can. I don't rely on the brake to save me.

Basically if you have to ask why a guard is necessary you don't understand the machine and operations you are doing and need to dig into some good books and/or seek out training.

Pete

 

[Lons]

The biggest cause of distractions in my case is other people and I've posted in the past how my wife was yelling at me that dinner was ready while I was using the saw and couldn't hear her through the ear protectors. After me explaining the potential consequences at great length it won't happen again but I often work with the main door open and several times I've turned to find someone trying to attract my attention or the dog pushing past me.

I try to work methodically, don't rush, keep the floor swept and clear of obstructions as I work, never use a blunt blade and keep my digits as far away from danger as possible.
I intend to take all my limbs with me to the grave! :wink:

 

[user22161]

I used to have a 20 " Wadkin table saw with a mitre slot about 4" from the blade and a little mitre gauge that ran in the slot. I could never imagine using the gauge that close to the blade, don't think anyone would, think that is what put me off jigs etc.

That distance is fairly standard and I never worry about using the mitre gauge as hands are firmly planted on it, the slot keeping them away from the blade. Decent gauges are locked in the T slot, unlike the rubbish ones which come with saws.

I often use a cross cut sled which needs the crown guard and knife removing but the sled has a "hump" in the blade area which forces hands further apart, away from it. Grooving on the 01332 saw also needs the riving knife removing as it's also the crown guard mount but I bought a spare and cut it down and never use the saw without it. I may be wrong but suspect the knife is more important than the guard.

 

[woodbloke66]

it does make me wonder why any hobbyist or one-man-band would even use a table saw, when bandsaws and tracksaws can do the same jobs.

They can do some of the jobs. Not all of the jobs.

But there are other factors too, like accuracy, consistency, ease of use etc

Just scanning back through this thread and I came across this snippet. Apologies if it's slightly OT, but I haven't used a table saw for years now and don't see need for one in a smallish hobbyist 'shop. A decent, well set up bandsaw(s) together with an accurate shooting board is all I need for the type of work I do. If you also have a tracksaw (as I do) it's just one more bit of kit to ensure you never have to actually go near a table saw - Rob

 

[Lons]

I have a Startrite bandsaw and a Makita tracksaw but I wouldn't give up the tablesaw without a fight.

 

[sunnybob]

it does make me wonder why any hobbyist or one-man-band would even use a table saw, when bandsaws and tracksaws can do the same jobs.

They can do some of the jobs. Not all of the jobs.

But there are other factors too, like accuracy, consistency, ease of use etc

Just scanning back through this thread and I came across this snippet. Apologies if it's slightly OT, but I haven't used a table saw for years now and don't see need for one in a smallish hobbyist 'shop. A decent, well set up bandsaw(s) together with an accurate shooting board is all I need for the type of work I do. If you also have a tracksaw (as I do) it's just one more bit of kit to ensure you never have to actually go near a table saw - Rob

"FOR THE TYPE OF WORK I DO"......... no probs if you dont need or want a table saw, but that is your choicein your workshop.
My "workshop" is a single garage of 15 square metres. I had a bandsaw for over three years before I bought a table saw, had to buy a site saw because there just wasnt room for a stand alone. There are many things I use that table saw for that the bandsaw cannot do. They complement each other and I would not give up the table saw, OR the bandsaw.

 

[woodbloke66]

"FOR THE TYPE OF WORK I DO"......... no probs if you dont need or want a table saw, but that is your choicein your workshop.
My "workshop" is a single garage of 15 square metres. I had a bandsaw for over three years before I bought a table saw, had to buy a site saw because there just wasnt room for a stand alone. There are many things I use that table saw for that the bandsaw cannot do. They complement each other and I would not give up the table saw, OR the bandsaw.

Each to their own as ever SB :lol: Without wishing to take this thread further OT, I've had a look at your projects itemised on your sig block (and very nice they are too) and I reckon all of them could be made with a bandsaw, shooting board and tracksaw (as well as other workshop kit) If you'd care to have a swift peek at the stuff in my sig block below, I can guarantee that all of it has been made without using a table saw though large boards are roughly converted with a hand held circular saw. It really depends on how you or I like to work; for me, I don't need or want a table saw.

Just as a matter of interest, if you have a look at this fairly largish 'shop, there's loads of droolworthy kit, but no table saw - Rob

 

[sunnybob]

Rob, far superior to anything I make =D>

But in the true spirit of what works for one but not the other, I suffer from arthritis in both hands (1 day this week unable to even unscrew the coffee jar lid) and hand tools such as planes and chisels are almost impossible for me to use on a regular basis.
Yes, I can cut a long piece of wood on the bandsaw, but no, I cant plane it smooth afterwards, so by using the table saw on long cuts, a mere rub over with a sanding block gives me the finished surface.
8) 8)