Tablesaw Choice - Perspective required.

[ByronBlack]

Fella's, your all gents!!

With your collective help, and a few PM's running back and forth between myself, Simon and our resident Sparky, Pete, I've come to realise that my setup will be more than capable of running the saw and an extractor!!!

So, that eliminates all my issues with the SIP, and I'll be ordering one tomorrow closely followed by a shiny new Incra 1000SE. I didn't want to get the Osbourne because I'm not a fan of importing, and I quite like the protractor head on the Incra.

I'll be installing a 16amp socket for the SIP from the outset so as not to worry about blown fuses etc..

Sorry for confusing anyone with my electrical setup. My farther-in-law installed it and I know as much about electrics as I do brain surgery!! All I know after talking to him is that the consumer unit in the workshop is fed by a 20amp supply from the house CU and there are two breakers in the CU, one for the lighting and one for the sockets.. I think! The cable coming into the workshop is heavy duty armoured jobby, and the wiring in the workshop is quite heavy duty (grey coated) stuff, so I'm sure it'll be good to go. It does afterall handle elrusto with an exractor etc.. and I've checked the two motors (my p/t and the SIP) and their not far off.


So, let this be the end of my constant questioning about tablesaws! This time next week, i should be the proud owner and hopefully 10 fingered user of a shiny new lump of Iron.

Thanks again to everyone who has persevered and helped me understand even the most basic of information

 

[Slim]

Good on you Byron! You won't be disappointed. (I hope)... If you are, I will feel personally responsible!

 

[ByronBlack]

Yes Simon, if it goes wrong. It Will be all your fault!

 

[Jake]

20A will be a 2.5mm2 radial.

 

[woodbloke]

BB wrote -

a shiny new lump of Iron.

Sincerely hope this lump of iron is in a slightly better condition than the last major piece of equipment you had delivered...El Rusto - Rob

 

[Streepips]

Byron.....

What about a decent second hand Scheppach 2500? You already know about scheppach saws and are happiy with its little brother, within its size limitations
I would go for a pre cast iron model 2500, the cast iron adds little except weight and rust potential, it may help absorb excess vibration on less well finished units but its not a functional necessity.
The Fox ( Older type with the outrigger arm sliding table) I know about too, bought one new and ran it 6 days a week for 3 years.Good points are the motor and the rise and fall and tilt mechanisms.
The bad points are the "pull saw" gimmick which destabilises the blade accuracy, the poor rip fence back lock, the flimsy sliding table carriage bed, ( held together with plastic blocks ) the hold down clamp on same, ( distorts the rail ) The dust extraction which is a lousy design and needs modding, or you are clearing it out every 20 minutes, the awful black hole of blade change where if you drop anything its down the hole. The awful soft screws that hold the throat plate, they need replacing ( if you can get them out )
The start up capacitor is prone to failure also.
To continue, the support rod ( the travelling one not the end rail suppport) is a poor design and loosens as you use the sliding table, the bearings for the slider need constant attention and cleaning to run properly, the table is factory squared to the frame and trunnion and is likely to need the core pins knocking out and the table repositioning and redrilling to get it true and square, the rip fence is not sturdy at the operator end and at the backlock it depends on a thin plastic moulding to take all the strain of the locking pressure.................
In spite of all that I still really quite enjoy using it, but its not consistent or trouble free.......
Same I suspect for the Record equivalent, which has now claimed the Fox version back into the Record fold as a clone too near to be legally sustainable......So the new Fox mat be different class......., I dont know............
Speaking of clones, thats what most of the sub £2000:00 cast iron table saws are, some better than others.
Cannot comment on the SIP, never had a machine of theirs just never attracted to the brand...I remember them pre cast iron days and I would never have bought anything SIP then.
I served an apprenticeship and during it used Wadkin, Sedgwick Dankaert, Bursgreen, Startrite and suchlike machinery, and so can vouch that just because cast iron is involved does not guarantee any pedigree or inherent advantage over a properly constructed rigid alloy machine such as the Scheppach
I bought a Scheppach 2500 new about 8 years ago and its reliable, accurate and powerful as I need, easy to maintain and has great tech support if ever required, plus the model has been much the same for a good number of years,, not needing a makeover once a year to maintain sales.....Its well engineered to start with

If you used your budget to include a second user machine I am sure you would get a lot more for your money....
Hope you get what you want, its a big buy

 

[ByronBlack]

Jake = 2.5mm seems to ring a bell, mostly probably right. Tomorrow I think i'll post up some pics just to be on the safe side.

Rob - I'm sure this one will be fine, I've dealt with the company that I'm buying it from before and they aren't amateurish cowboys like Lyndhurst (spit)!!

Streetpips, thanks a lot for the information! Seems the Fox had its share of fiddly bits, but nice to hear that it was reliable. I did consider a second-hand machine, a forum member kindly sent me a link to a recent auction for a Jet, but it just went over the budget that I had prepared for it.

The reason for the SIP decision over something like a 2nd user Scheppach is mainly for the support and guarentee. I'm not particularly mechanically minded and don't want to have to diagnose or repair any issues outset of my limited skills, so a new machine will hopefully provide me with some backup and support in case of anything going wrong, otherwise, I agree, a 2nd user will most probably have been an excellent choice!

 

[Streepips]

Congratulations on making a decision ! Thats the hardest part, and I am sure that apart from the suppliers tech support you will get any questions addressed here too !
Good luck and happy machining !

 

[Lord Nibbo]

I think the SIP CI table saw must be the most commonly owned saw on the forum.....

Mailee recently bought a 12" version. here are some tips I gave him that really make the saw sing.
------------------
My 10" sip was heavy enough. but when it's delivered the base has to be fitted with the main body upside down then all the pipes for the extractor fitted before turning up the right way up, it's a two man job

Some hints....

Before you attach the wings. Check the blade is at 90deg to the table top when the adjusting wheel is hard up against the stop (it won't wind any further) If it's not it's easier to adjust the stops with no wings bolted on, to adjust them take off both side panels, the stops are on the tilt screw thread and are locked in position with TWO grub screws. Then wind it to 45deg and do the same check on the other stop. Before you bolt the fence on using the mitre groove slot and a good mitre fence (not the one that came with the machine) check the top is parallel to the blade, the four adjustable bolts that hold the top on have plenty of slack so by slackening those nuts it's easy to get the top parallel. Then with wings bolted on and the fence, check if the fence is parallel to the blade, if it's not just slacken the grub screws where the fence is fixed to the slide bracket (the bit with the sight line) again there is plenty of slack to get the fence spot on inline with the blade.

As a reminder I did this to mine recently......

Fed up of having to remove the riving knife every time I wanted to use my tenoning jig I decided to cut the knife off just below the level of the blade. But the riving knife holds the guard in place and the guard is also designed to suck up any stray sawdust above the table, not that the suction was any good anyway So I decided to do something about it, here's what I done.

I cut of the riving knife just below the blade height and added this frame to hold the guard.

In raised position. If I need clearance for using my tenoning jig it really easy to remove one bolt in the struts of the frame and swing the cover out of the way. This pic shows how high it will lift without removing the bolt.

While I was at it I thought about the rubbish suction that the guard/cover generates so using a small piece of plastic cut from an old white spirit bottle is pushed into the pipe end to create a ventury effect. It works but I'm going to experiment with different sizes to see what is best to add suction to the blade cover.

I also added a zero clearance kerf slot.

Finally I though I'd stop any dust blowing around the workshop by filling the gaps between the feet on the base.
So using just some scrap MDF I did this.

No fixings they just sit on the floor.

I got the box tube and flat bar out of an offcuts bin at a local farm engineering company, cost £5 The pipe is from an old knackered Dyson The paint I already had, I probably used about half a can so that cost was about £3.... so in all I've spent about £8

Ah! forgot £2.50 for the gate spring....

Finally I also added some shelves

 

[Mike.C]

Nice one Byron you will not regret it.

One thing I would recommend if space is short in you shop, and that is to get the SIP wheel kit (06920 I think). It is ideal if you need to move the saw at anytime, and unlike a lot of kits, when not in use it leaves you saw stranding directly on the floor.

Cheers

Mike

 

[ByronBlack]

Your Lordship, thanks for posting the mods and advice on the saw, I appreciate the 'headsup' and the idea's to improve extraction.

Mike - I did as you suggested, and have ordered the wheel kit, thanks for remining me, after fitting one to my bandsaw it's a great boon to be able to move these things round easily.

I placed my order for the saw today with the a very lovely sounding lady from West Skelston Services who advertise on fleabay, and will be receiving my saw on monday!! I'm going to be a like a small child at christmas

Hopefully, Rutlands will be able to prove me wrong and get an Incra to me in time aswell.

Thanks again to everyone for putting up with my endless questions!

 

[Mike.C]

Byron thats where I got my saw from and they are pretty good.

As for Rutlands they have always been first class when I have ordered from them. On the other hand there are a few members who have had nothing but trouble with them. I think you made a wise choice getting the Incra 1000SE.

One tip, when you put your saw together make sure that you install the feet the right way around because they are pre threaded to accept the wheel kit, and if you get it wrong it will be a hassle to remove and refit them on this heavy saw. As LN states it comes inverted, and so it is best to do all this before you turn it up the right way.

Cheers

Mike

 

[ByronBlack]

Thanks for the tip Mike. Do the wheels on the kit lock? or is it one of those that lifts up and down when you need to move? Finally, does it have any kind of levelling facility either on the feet or the wheel kit?

 

[Mike.C]

Byron, it's a bit different from the normal kit so it will be better to show you. Sorry that the pictures are not much good.

As you can see the back of the saw has a handle with 2 wheels on it, and when you press down on this it lifts the saw up.
On the front there is one wheel on each side, and these have a bolt on top. When you want to move the saw, you just wind the bolt down a few turns (with the allen key provided), and after you finish moving the saw, just wind them back again until the base sits on the floor.

A bit of messing around, but as I said most other kits keep the saw off the ground, and I am never happy with that, because even though you can lock the wheels they still rock a bit.

HTH

Cheers

Mike

 

[ByronBlack]

Mike, you're a star. Thanks for posting the pics, looks to be a nice system. I agree with you about the 'rocking' you sometimes get. I have that with the axminster roller base I have for my bandsaw, it's not critical with the bandsaw, but it does sometime annoy me. This one looks to be a much better solution. I doubt I'll be moving the saw around much once it's installed, but while i'm adding outfeed tables etc it'll be useful to get into position!

 

[Digit]

Thanks for the pics milord, given me some ideas for the guard extraction.
Personally I find the set up of a wing on each side of the main table a complete wast of time, and as soon as I'm in my new shop I'm going to start playing around with both wings on the right.
It seems like a good idea at the moment-----.
PS I picked up a set of 3in lockable, steerable castors from my local re-cycling centre and bolted them straight onto the base. It's a heavy machine!

 

[Lord Nibbo]

Personally I find the set up of a wing on each side of the main table a complete wast of time, and as soon as I'm in my new shop I'm going to start playing around with both wings on the right.

You need to work to the left of the blade when the blade is tilted, so you need a wing on that side, unless you have the sliding table, plus the measure is fixed on the front guide for the fence and if you slide the guides to the right to make use of the fence the measure will be out by about 18" approximately. :?

 

[Digit]

Agreed milord, but I have never, as yet, cut an angle on anything so wide that I needed the wing on the left for support, but not infrequently I have needed to be able to move the fence further to the right. Agreed the scales would be u/s.

 

[Mike.C]

LN,

plus the measure is fixed on the front guide for the fence and if you slide the guides to the right to make use of the fence the measure will be out by about 18" approximately.

If you use a sliding table, and so put both the extensions on the right hand side, you get a replacement measuring tape included with it. So if you wanted to put the extentions on the right without the sliding table, I am sure you could get this replacement tape from Sip

Cheers

Mike

 

[Digit]

I'll remember that Mike, thanks.