Supporting member

[CHJ]

There was a poster on here hours after the new site was launched, clearly a spammer going by the name of 'Mr X' I think?
All of the posts were blatantly copied "how to's"
One of his/her posts was about how to import machinery from the U.S.
I reported the posts and eventually they were gone.
Call me suspicious if you want...

That was just some weird and wonderful way the new owners used to migrate old forum system contentment that was outside the day to day forum postings system into the new format.

I understand that those threads are now in the forum database under their original owners names, but have no direct knowledge of who is doing the work or where exactly they have been listed.

 

[Blockplane]

How it seems to me at the moment - "we have taken over your forum, and unless you pay us a subscription, we will render it unusable for you".

I'll take another look in another month or so, but for now, I'm off.

 

[That would work]

Other forums are available...
I would not dream about paying for something that a. Has been free and b.has not been explained properly.
Frankly I am surprised that anyone would.

 

[AndyT]

Like Bob and others I run my PayPal account from a separate email address and link it to a low limit credit card. I've never had a problem.

But although Paypal succeeds by being really convenient and easy, doesn't it escape all formal regulation and oversight? I've been reliably informed that it somehow doesn't count as a bank and doesn't belong to any country that could ever enforce a judgement against it. So it's all lovely when it's working properly but if you did hit some serious problem you'd be defenceless.

Edited to add:

It seems I was mistaken. I'll have words with my informant!
Meanwhile, see correction from Blackswanwood below.

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads/supporting-member.124201/page-3#post-1374127

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Because what was a hobby for the previous owner ...

Wasn't much of a hobby, was it?

 

[sunnybob]

Thats why you insert the credit card firewall. If paypal takes money they dont earn, then the CC company has to refund you. If the CC company goes rouge as well, then its the end of the world and who cares?

 

[sunnybob]

How it seems to me at the moment - "we have taken over your forum, and unless you pay us a subscription, we will render it unusable for you".

I'll take another look in another month or so, but for now, I'm off.

Betcha he lives in Tunbridge Wells and reads the times

 

[Dr Al]

Thats why you insert the credit card firewall. If paypal takes money they dont earn, then the CC company has to refund you. If the CC company goes rouge as well, then its the end of the world and who cares?

I guess everyone has their cut-off point of whom they trust. I use paypal (with only a credit card linked to it and not a bank account) just because it's extremely convenient to do so and too much hassle not to do so. On the other hand, I won't touch any of the facebook family (facebook, instagram, whatsapp) with a barge pole.

I only really use paypal for ebay purchases (and this forum) and I check all the transactions on the card carefully. I'm obviously trusting paypal's terms and conditions and assuming that if there's a fraudulent transaction it'll be sorted by them.

My understanding (which is quite likely to be wrong) is that the credit card protection (which is only very strong over £100 anyway, although smaller transactions are generally protected by card companies as well) doesn't apply to payments through third party payment handlers, so your credit card protection may be a little weaker for paypal transactions than for shop transactions. Paypal at least claim that they protect you in the same way the credit card companies do, but unless a problem happens with my account (I haven't had any issues in 20 years of using paypal) I'll never know for sure.

Edit: ignore the last paragraph and read this post instead: Supporting member

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Betcha he lives in Tunbridge Wells and reads the times

What's wrong with the Times? Best newspaper on the market.

 

[Jacob]

You can select no adverts in your account details preferences

 

[MikeK]

Even as I type this I am seeing an advert for a US clothing company with prices in dollars - welcome to your future folks.

You don't have to be a paid subscriber or use an adblocker to avoid the adverts. If you are interested in not seeing the adverts, see this thread by Angie that describes the steps:

How to Disable Ads

 

[That would work]

Let's also not forget that everyone's posts are now somebody's property.
And they want payment from us???

 

[MikeK]

Let's also not forget that everyone's posts are now somebody's property.
And they want payment from us???

I think ownership of the forum content has always been someone else's property. From the current Terms and Rules:

You are granting us with a non-exclusive, permanent, irrevocable, unlimited license to use, publish, or re-publish your Content in connection with the Service. You retain copyright over the Content.

It's been a while, but I think this is the same, or similar, wording I remember from when I first joined UKW. A similar banner was at the bottom of each page on the old site.

 

[That would work]

I think ownership of the forum content has always been someone else's property. From the current Terms and Rules:



It's been a while, but I think this is the same, or similar, wording I remember from when I first joined UKW. A similar banner was at the bottom of each page on the old site.

Yes I understand that that was always the case but there was no expectation that money would change hands.

 

[Jacob]

Yes I understand that that was always the case but there was no expectation that money would change hands.

Actually those terms are pretty crass and should put off anybody who takes their work seriously. Especially bearing in mind that this group started a long time ago as mutual self help and not with a view to "ownership" or profit, beyond running expenses.
They should be paying us!

 

[MikeK]

Yes I understand that that was always the case but there was no expectation that money would change hands.

I have no financial interest in this website, and certainly no influence in its design or operation. However, I don't recall anyone demanding payment. The contribution is voluntary. Contribute or not. Either way, you can still enjoy the free content of UKW for as long as it lasts or as long as the owners allow free access.

I'm also a member of SawMillCreek, and the owner imposed a punishing $6.00 per year fee for unrestricted access. Those who don't contribute don't have access to the For Sale forum, can't use the PM functions, or see any of the images uploaded to the SMC server. Thankfully, I didn't have to take out an equity loan on my house or tap into my savings for the annual fee of $6. Most of the images in my posts there are embedded links from either of the hosting sites I use so everyone can see them, even those who are not members, but just passing through.

 

[MikeK]

Actually those terms are pretty crass and should put off anybody who takes their work seriously. Especially bearing in mind that this group started a long time ago as mutual self help and not with a view to "ownership" or profit, beyond running expenses.
They should be paying us!

Fortunately for you, there is an exit clause in the Terms and Rules:

If you do not agree with these terms, please do not register or use the Service. Use of the Service constitutes acceptance of these terms. If you wish to close your account, please contact us.

 

[AES]

Yeah, agreed (with both of the above), and member "that would work"'s observations are very interesting. It's for such reasons that I'm now holding fire for a while before I further consider parting with any of my own hard-earned".

OTOH, although I believe I'm wrong from the strictly legal POV, personally I have always regarded anything I post on here (or anywhere else "in the ether") as being in the public domain, meaning I've "lost" any and all rights to it. Whatever the real legality, IMO, the real world facts are that it would be far too difficult and expensive for an individual like me to do anything about any such transgressions anyway.

And that may well be one of UKW's "problems" in the current situation. To date I (and many others I suspect) have regarded UKW as "our own". So up to now, I (and again many others?) have freely parted with whatever knowledge they may possess on an FOC basis in the spirit of mutual cooperation amongst a group of like-minded "equals" (OK, "old codgers" if you like).

But now we have a new owner who has clearly invested in this Forum to make a profit. Nothing wrong with profit per se, BUT while we all "knew" very well that in reality the stuff we posted was actually the property of the then site owner (Charlie?), that wasn't the point. Apart from the ads, as far as I could see, neither Charlie nor anyone else ever made any attempt to make money from what we all posted - we all posted simply as being all part of a you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours community.

That has obviously changed now and I for one would hate some of the info I've taken the time and trouble to post here to now be monetised by "strangers".

As said, I'm holding back and standing on the side lines for a while now.

 

[RogerS]

Well set it up only with a credit card, and if you're bothered, with a card which has a low limit. Then you've got a comeback with the CC company, as well as with Paypal of course. I've never had an issue with Paypal, and Paypal has no idea of the existence of my bank account.

Good grief, man..that won't work at all...they'll simply do a chargeback before your coffee is cold...then you have to waste time trying to sort things out. Much better to have a dedicated bank account for PayPal which I have. Balance kept at 5p. Any monies coming in from selling something on eBay gets moved out immediately.

 

[Garno]

I think this forum is worthy of being a subscription one.

Providing the cost to members was small enough I don't think many members would leave, a few would but enough would stay and keep this great forum going. By having it as a paid forum it will do away spammers and banned members setting up numerous accounts.

I say all that knowing I would be one of the casualties and I would miss these forums, I laid my reasons out earlier and can not afford any payment (yes things are that tight) but with being at the level I am regards woodwork I can offer very little, I have reached the stage where I am embarrassed to ask any questions anymore as they are so basic I feel I should know the answers. Saying that I am not giving up on woodwork and sadly for you lot I am not giving up being a member here (unless I get a bill demanding payment)