Suggestions for starting again.

[Beau]

There is a real shortage of good makers out there in furniture and joinery, you should be able to walk into a good job. Self employment is so much harder than employed people think and not for everyone.

Cheers

Peter

As a self employed worker it doesn't hurt to see what work is available. As said above there is massive shortage of skilled workers (at least around here) so go see what there is. Just knowing there is a fall back is a great confidence boost if taking the self employed rout.

It's not all bad being self employed either. If you enjoy your work shows and trips away are break not a chore. Also heard it's easy to barter skills in the self employed world. For me the killer would be employing others. I see lots of happy but poor one man bands but employing others is another world of stress and chasing jobs from what I can see.

 

[Jacob]

Mike

One way I found of coping with a long-term job/ career that I wasn't finding as fulfilling as I wanted was to create for myself a 2-year plan. In the end I didn't need it as other things changed, but immediately I had the plan, things started to feel better in work. The plan was to stick at the job for 2 years in the course of which I was starting to try things out/ explore markets/ do work on the side. That's advice others have given, but the time limit's a good thing - it means your creative skills/ sense of self/ whatever have another outlet or place to be grounded, you have a clear goal and time limit to endure something that's making you unhappy, but you still get to pay the bills while you do so. Just a thought.

C

That's it - just get started but don't give up the day job. You have the skills, the kit, the shed, and an income. Presumably you don't need to borrow money.
Many people try to get going with non of these advantages!
You couldn't be in a better position (though having large unearned income would help of course).
Start making stuff and trying to sell it.

PS trip down memory lane but thats how I started. I had a job we had one child and we started making toys (both into crafts). Sold a few. Then a few more. Eventually the day came when I realised I couldn't afford to keep the job (and the career prospects :roll: ) it was holding us back. Never had a job since! Never earned a fortune either but survived OK.

 

[Matt@]

I think I saw a previous post regarding specialising. A mistake lots of businesses make IMO is appealing to too wider an audience offerring a to wide a spread of services and what can be effective is choose an area of your work which 1) you want to do 2) is more profitable, then focus on advertising that.

For example if you are a cabinet maker and need work and money in fast then don't advertise yourself as a cabinet maker looking at doing kitchens, fitted bedrooms, furniture and everything else, pick the work area you want to do and push that (other work will follow by association)

Again as an example (but this may not be a good one) if you live in an area (typically a city) where there are lots of period properties then advertise specifically to do chimney alcove shelving or fitting (most city props have chimneys) . This advertising focuses peoples attention and gets them thinking about having some shelving done when if the ad was generic it might not cross their mind 1) that they could even have shelving in their alcoves 2) they didnt know who would be able to do it anyway.

A bit like the car repair garage who sticks an A sign outside the premises advertising "car repairs" v the garage who has a sign advertising "cam belt replacements" and other repairs. Thus they are headlining their preferred work meaning they will automatically get more work of that nature. Also they get known for cam belt replacements the place to go so some extra impact there. Plus if they can do cambelts "they must know what they're doing" so they'll be able to do my steering rack etc type of thing.

Heres a real life example so my bruv was a chippie in Plymouth, he was starting from scratch again and needed work. He said he was designing some flyers and would I look at them so i said yes. He emails me a draft which is the usual stuff ie name of his business is big writing at top of flyer and a list of bullet points for generic work he is after - a typical trade flyer and nothing wrong with it in most peoples eyes But I told him to alter the layout, put his business name at the bottom smaller and headline the flyer with something like " specialising in woodwork repairs to period properties in Plymouth" Guess what thats the enquiries he got and he got complimented on his flyers. So thats an example of focussing peoples minds on something thats dear to THEM.

sorry bit a of an early morning ramble there :roll:

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Mike , I have no advice at all, but I'm sure I can speak for many others who are trapped into unfulfilling, unproductive jobs by mortgages, children, debts and so on and wish you the best of luck with whatever route you take.

 

[RobinBHM]

In my experience, fitted furniture of 1 kind or another has a good market. By its very nature, it has to be purpose made.

I know it doesnt have the highest level of furniture making skills perhaps, as it involves a lot of sheet material and not much solid.

However it still requires a good level of creativity, and an amount of working with solid timber.

You dont have to get into kitchens, it could be alcove shelving or cupboards. Under stair cupboards etc -specialise in a few.

I would avoid the idea of making for retail sales or making batches. As Bob says, make for commission only as a sale is better than a hope!

 

[gmgmgm]

OP, I'm not remotely qualified to post on this thread, but it sounds as though you enjoy the teaching- maybe consider a different school? Part-time at a different (even private) school might also give access to a useful customer base.

 

[woodbrains]

Hello,

Many thanks for the advice so far, everyone has something useful to say, and I will consider everything you have suggested.

I agree that speculative stuff is hard to sell and fitted stuff always has a market. And I think it is sensible to keep some form of salaried job to keep the wolf from the door. I can't initially do fitted/alcove stuff from my shed, however, there simply isn't the space. I will have to make small items, perhaps occasional tables, boxes, small cupboards and the like. I could always find premises if I ever get a big enough built in commission, if and when one turns up. Then I'd really have to follow up with more work pretty quickly!

I did have a 2 year plan of sorts, as suggested above. The reason I moved to the school I'm in now in Sept 2016 was to start making stuff with a view to become a maker again. The school is brand new and has some decent kit, so I thought I could crank some stuff out when I was there, I also only worked 4 days, so I had an extra day to make things too. Actually using the extra day never quite worked out as productive as it should (small child seemed to get ill or other situation cropped up and it was always my day off that went west) and now I'm working the full 5 days again. It was my fault actually going into school on the day off, thinking i could get stuff done; but always ended up being asked to fix a hole some kid kicked in a wall or such. I might see if I can go part time and never use the school facilities and be firm that I'm not going to lose any of my workshop days.

It looks like I'll have to brave up to making a promo video, it seems the modern way!

Oh, gmgmgm the whole reason I started work in schools in the first place was because I wanted to teach kids. But the training that used to be available to train to teach was pulled so I ended up as technician. It wasn't my best move. I did do a bit of teaching in the Grammar school I was at where the kids were fabulous. But grammar schools will never employ an unqualified teacher, it simply would not do. This school will allow non qualified teachers, and I have a small time table this year, but it is more like a fire fight than teaching! There is talk of teacher training on the job, like an apprenticeship, sometime in the future. Do I wait, the cogs turn slowly and time isn't on my side? A few more years and I'll have no valuable working life left after I did the apprenticeship, I'd be pushing 60. I just missed a tech job last month in a private school, didn't find out about it till just after the deadline, bah. They don't come up often.

Thanks everyone.

Mike.

 

[MikeG.]

Grammar schools won't, but private schools certainly do employ non-qualified teachers.

 

[Mr T]

I think I saw a previous post regarding specialising. A mistake lots of businesses make IMO is appealing to too wider an audience offerring a to wide a spread of services and what can be effective is choose an area of your work which 1) you want to do 2) is more profitable, then focus on advertising that.

For example if you are a cabinet maker and need work and money in fast then don't advertise yourself as a cabinet maker looking at doing kitchens, fitted bedrooms, furniture and everything else, pick the work area you want to do and push that (other work will follow by association)

Again as an example (but this may not be a good one) if you live in an area (typically a city) where there are lots of period properties then advertise specifically to do chimney alcove shelving or fitting (most city props have chimneys) . This advertising focuses peoples attention and gets them thinking about having some shelving done when if the ad was generic it might not cross their mind 1) that they could even have shelving in their alcoves 2) they didnt know who would be able to do it anyway.

A bit like the car repair garage who sticks an A sign outside the premises advertising "car repairs" v the garage who has a sign advertising "cam belt replacements" and other repairs. Thus they are headlining their preferred work meaning they will automatically get more work of that nature. Also they get known for cam belt replacements the place to go so some extra impact there. Plus if they can do cambelts "they must know what they're doing" so they'll be able to do my steering rack etc type of thing.

Heres a real life example so my bruv was a chippie in Plymouth, he was starting from scratch again and needed work. He said he was designing some flyers and would I look at them so i said yes. He emails me a draft which is the usual stuff ie name of his business is big writing at top of flyer and a list of bullet points for generic work he is after - a typical trade flyer and nothing wrong with it in most peoples eyes But I told him to alter the layout, put his business name at the bottom smaller and headline the flyer with something like " specialising in woodwork repairs to period properties in Plymouth" Guess what thats the enquiries he got and he got complimented on his flyers. So thats an example of focussing peoples minds on something thats dear to THEM.

sorry bit a of an early morning ramble there :roll:

Anyone remeber Brad Naylor, he built quite a business specialising in alcove furniture.

If you look for emplyment you could try Silver Lining, they are within commuting distance (Wrexham) and may be looking for skilled people, depends if you can handle working for bent Russian Oligarchs and Saudi Princes (although some of them may have other things on their minds at present )

Chris

 

[Jacob]

Talking of advertising - my one and only small ad in a local paper I got someone to do in neat handwriting (i.e. not like mine). Exactly as MrT said above - it started; "Sash Windows, Panel doors and all period joinery" and went on with my details at the bottom. It was a hit and highly visible thanks to being so different from the printers' jobs on the page. People actually cut it out and saved it - came back a year later etc.

Another point - instead of thinking in terms of "Starting again" (difficult) think rather of "doing a bit on the side" (easy - start today, no excuses, what are you waiting for?!!).

 

[woodbrains]

Hello,

I do agree that alcove furniture is a seller. I would have to commit to premises to do it though, as doing stuff on the side in the shed is limited by space. I have no problem in principle with the idea of doing alcove stuff though. I did a fair amount of it when I had my workshop before, but I'll need to get clients further afield from where I am, the budgets of those I did before made it a poor return.

Any ideas on small scale stuff that I could do on the side until I gained some momentum and could commit to premises? I do have some nice alcove stuff I made in my home to photograph for an online portfolio, so at least I could advertise doing this sort of work, although not actually be doing it currently. I did do a built in 'on the side' last summer, but it had to be done in my back yard; I lucked out on the weather then, but it is not something a can reliably do at the minute.

I did interview with Silver Lining about 10 years ago and completely blew it. I completely corpsed and did my practical interview just went wrong. My nerves just got the better of me I suppose I'm not a good interviewee. But it did strike me as a place I wouldn't like to work TBH, like I have a lot of options eh? :roll: I guess I'd not get another chance, but I'll keep my eyes open. There is a small maker in Chester, who I have approached just recently, They have just appointed someone, but these things are transient, something may well come up again.

Mike.

 

[MikeG.]

...... My shed is 5 by 6 metres, which may sound big to a hobbyist, but get a Planer, thicknesser, tablesaw, bandsaw and bench in there and the space to store timber and actually construct furniture is vanishingly small......

My workshop is also 30 sq m, and I know that I could comfortably make alcove units in there. I comfortably made a kitchen in there a couple of years ago. I'm pretty sure I could run a small joinery business from it. I wonder if you might start by having a look at how this is set up and whether you could consolidate some of your machinery (as I said previously, get a combined planer thicknesser in place of 2 separate machines). Maybe swap to a smaller table saw. Could you construct a small overhang on one side of the shed for timber storage? Why have I got the space but you haven't, with the same floor area?

 

[Jacob]

.........

Any ideas on small scale stuff that I could do on the side until I gained some momentum and could commit to premises? ......

Boxes? Small cabinets, bits of furniture - side tables?
Wassa problem - just flip through a few web pages and see what others are selling - there isn't a magic formula - just do the obvious.
Small space means you could aim for higher added value; jewellery boxes?

You don't need to "commit" to premises you could to wait until it becomes essential, if ever.

My last workshop was about 20ft square - not big but managed to do sizeable jobs. Excuses, excuses, what are you waiting for? :roll:

 

[MikeG.]

I made a decent living in the winters many moons ago making Welsh Dressers. Antique pine was all the rage then (yeah, I know)......... I made one and advertised it in the local papers Classified Ads section. I just kept running the ad, and taking orders for more. That was out of a shed 3m by 5m. I don't think space is the issue here.

 

[pcb1962]

I can't initially do fitted/alcove stuff from my shed, however, there simply isn't the space.

I expect you're already aware of them, but if not then Peter Millard's videos are full of ideas on how to make some fairly big stuff in a very small workshop.

 

[woodbrains]

...... My shed is 5 by 6 metres, which may sound big to a hobbyist, but get a Planer, thicknesser, tablesaw, bandsaw and bench in there and the space to store timber and actually construct furniture is vanishingly small......

My workshop is also 30 sq m, and I know that I could comfortably make alcove units in there. I comfortably made a kitchen in there a couple of years ago. I'm pretty sure I could run a small joinery business from it. I wonder if you might start by having a look at how this is set up and whether you could consolidate some of your machinery (as I said previously, get a combined planer thicknesser in place of 2 separate machines). Maybe swap to a smaller table saw. Could you construct a small overhang on one side of the shed for timber storage? Why have I got the space but you haven't, with the same floor area?

Hello,

How high though! Internally 30 sq m is more like 25, building regs measure footprint not floor space and internal ridge height is perhaps 7 ft 6, but roof joists interfere and max is perhaps 6 ft 6 trailing off. My bandsaw stands in the centre line of the shed and grazes the middle joist. It is what I have. I did put my dust extraction in a lean to to gain a little space. I amassed the machinery when I was self employed and did without for a long time, to buy the stuff as I worked along. Now I have it, i'd quite like to keep it, selling reasonable stuff for hobby sized stuff is counter-intuitive if I ever do start professionally in earnest. I take your point about a combined planer/thicknesser, but it will still take up the same space as the planer and the thicknesser I have is on wheels, the gain would be mariginal.

Jacob, I'm not making excuses, I did mention boxes, occasional tables and other small stuff in previous posts, I just thought I ask if there was something I was missing that is a seller to give me a fighting chance. Also, advertising as a specialist in alcove furniture to start with might be a dead end if I don't have the space to actually do it. So whilst I understand the advice of not being too diverse in what I advertise in doing, specialising in alcove furniture is probably daft. I will have to move into that if things become viable. I'm actually doing jewellery boxes at the mo. How do I make the transition from jewellery boxes to alcove furniture?

Mike.

 

[woodbrains]

I can't initially do fitted/alcove stuff from my shed, however, there simply isn't the space.

I expect you're already aware of them, but if not then Peter Millard's videos are full of ideas on how to make some fairly big stuff in a very small workshop.

Hello,

I'm not familiar with the videos, thanks, I'll look them up.

Mike.

 

[MikeG.]

.....How high though! Internally 30 sq m is more like 25, building regs measure footprint not floor space and internal ridge height is perhaps 7 ft 6, but roof joists interfere and max is perhaps 6 ft 6 trailing off. My bandsaw stands in the centre line of the shed and grazes the middle joist. It is what I have. I did put my dust extraction in a lean to to gain a little space. I amassed the machinery when I was self employed and did without for a long time, to buy the stuff as I worked along. Now I have it, i'd quite like to keep it, selling reasonable stuff for hobby sized stuff is counter-intuitive if I ever do start professionally in earnest. I take your point about a combined planer/thicknesser, but it will still take up the same space as the planer and the thicknesser I have is on wheels, the gain would be mariginal........

I'm an architect.

Your walls would have to be 250mm thick to reduce your floor area to 25 sq m, and building regs measure internal floor area, not footprint.

 

[Jacob]

..... How do I make the transition from jewellery boxes to alcove furniture?

Mike.

If you are selling jewellery boxes why make the transition? Why not transit to something along the same lines? Concentrate on what you can do , not worry about what you can't do?

 

[kevinlightfoot]

AsI see it you are after the holy grail,as makers we all have the same problem,whether it be to make a living or not.We need people to feed with our products,even people who give their work away to friends soon run out of things to build or make.Most if they are honest don't make a living purely from making,they have support financially from elsewhere.What you are looking for is an idea to make a good living from a utopian existence where you can just make for customers who are lining up to buy your product.Sorry but it is a pipe dream,if you want that woodworking is the wrong way to go.In the early 80s I did a lot of work for large companies of whom I was envious.The bosses of these companies always told me to stay small,keep working out of my little workshop,they were right,one by one these large firms went under,having to more or less buy in work to keep their money hungry businesses afloat.Stay in your day job,make a bob or two on the side and you will enjoy it more than having to chase every penny just to get by.Believe me I know what schools are like I ended up as a teacher,took an early retirement and now enjoy my pension ,you won't be able to do that if you give up the day job.