Starting a workshop

[The Gent]

Hello,

This is my first post and am looking for some help from the more experienced members on this site.

I am going to build a 18' x 8' workshop over the Christmas period so I have to seriously start thinking about what I am going to put in it. I have been struggling in a 6' x 8' shed and have finally lost my patience.

I have so for built up a collection of hand power tools, I have a cheap Ryobi table saw which once I have got stuck into a couple of projects I have realised it will be no use to me if I want to take woodworking seriously. I recently bought a Woodrat. I will only be a enthusiastic hobbyist at best, my professional career will always pay more. I do however believe in having quality equipment that will last a long time and allow me to get the best finishes that I am capable of.

Initially I thought that a Record Power C26 (my local store has this for £3k ex demo) multi purpose would be the solution, as even with a larger space 18' x 8' still is very limited space. The C26 has the bonus of having a spindle moulder and a slot mortiser, however I do all of my morticing on my woodrat.

So I started looking at buying a table saw and a planer thicknesser separately:

Record Power TS250RS = £970
Record Power PT107 = £800
Total = £1770

I have done some work on Google SketchUp and it looks like I could get the two in. So basically for me the decision comes down to two questions:

1. Will the multi took perform significantly better (taking into consideration the fact that that I will only be a hobbyist and only used on evening/weekends) in the table saw / planer thicknessing area?

2. Is the spindle moulder that useful? I will be mostly hoping to make furniture and my style is more simple something like this would be indicative of the types of things that I would like to make

http://www.simplyrusticoak.co.uk/khxc/r ... rawer.html

So the bottom line as I see it is that I can get a good quality table saw, planer thicknesser for half the price of the Record C26 which is the way that I am leaning at the moment, and for the most part I can use a table router for the rest of the spindle moulder type jobs.

Could I please ask for members thoughts on this, given that my local store is a Record Power stockist this has been pole position in my head but may not be best for the money. So if you agree with my conclusion is there any other pieces of kit that I should consider if I said that I had a budget of around £2k for a table saw / planer thicknesser.

 

[barkwindjammer]

Are you a Tory ?

 

[The Gent]

I am merely polite, if that is what you a referring to.

 

[big soft moose]

Personally I'd say seperates - get a decent but small table saw like a Axminster TS200 or a Kity 419, and a small(ish) PT or a seperate planer and bench top thicknesser, and for a hobby/occasional user I doubt you need a spindle moulder - A router table built into the extension table of the table saw ought to be adequate.

 

[OLD]

I agree with big soft moose and think you should put all machines on casters then you can bring the m/c to the work area and connect up to your extraction system which idealy should be housed out side the shop.
Other useful m/cs are bandsaw and slideing miter saw ,please note if you fix the sms along a wall it uses loads of space, better to make a unit on castors.

 

[Chems]

Another vote for seprates. Although 18x8 isn't huge you should be able to set up a good shop within it.

 

[Digit]

Yep! Separates.

Roy.

 

[devonwoody]

Separates.

If you want to upgrade in the future you have got to start all over again. Many members here started with a combination and then wanted specialist machines eventually.

 

[woodbloke]

Separates is the way...a smallish saw like the K419 (or similar) and p/t (I have the K439) together with a decent bandsaw is the basis of a machine set up...don't forget also to allow some fundage for adequate extraction - Rob

 

[Dibs-h]

I've seen impressive & expensive machines used by not so impressive individuals with the results being in the dismal category. I've also seen very talented individuals turn out impressive pieces with not so expensive tools & equipment. What I am trying to get a cross - "tools don't maketh a cabinet maker." [Unless they's Festool and someone else is buying! :lol:]

Quality is subjective but I don't see how a Record £1000 table saw is going to realistically enable you to produce better than a £299 Axminster TS200 table saw? Someone was on here selling a barely used P\T for around the £350 mark - so you could have both machines for less than half of you £1700 budget.

HIH

Dibs

 

[woodbloke]

I've seen impressive & expensive machines used by not so impressive individuals with the results being in the dismal category. I've also seen very talented individuals turn out impressive pieces with not so expensive tools & equipment. What I am trying to get a cross - "tools don't maketh a cabinet maker." [Unless they's Festool and someone else is buying! :lol:]

Dibs

...and I've seen impressive & expensive machinery used by impressive individuals where the results have been brilliant.

It all depends on how you do your woodworking, completely machine orientated or hand tooly orientated. I suspect that most hereabouts are a bit of both (I know I am) If you've got the space then bigger, heavier duty, more expensive kit is generally more accurate, but I agree, you need to cut your cloth accordingly. I've been happy with smaller, decent quality gear as it's suited how I work but all of my stuff will be upgraded (read bigger) in the near future - Rob

 

[The Gent]

Thanks for all the advice so far.

The way I was thinking regarding the budget was to buy something that would last me forever and that I would have no real need to upgrade in the future. I guess that I have been compromising for so long that I just wanted to get the best I could afford without going bonkers (I getting a pretty good bonus from work in the new year - p.s. I am not a banker).

I do completely accept that you could stick me in the best workshop in the world and that won't mean that somehow I produce something wonderful, that will of course take more time.

If I said that the purchases were with the long term in mind, would people still recommend that cheaper options would still be the way to go?

Thanks again.

 

[Shultzy]

The problem with an eight foot wide workshop is exactly that, it's only eight foot wide. This means that a table saw has to spread across this width and the Record Power TS250RS looks very wide, so it might not give much room to get around it. I have the C26 and it gives about two feet of clearance on the planer side. Separates are great if you have enough space for all the other equipment you want to buy. Having said all this, if you buy a smaller table saw and planer / thicknesser it may be a better utilisation of your space.

 

[Digit]

Buying separates Gent isn't necessarily a cheaper option. Combos have to be sometning of a compromise, buying separates enables you to buy what suits best in each catagory.
My workshop is also 8ft wide and I would not entertain a combo in such a width. Look at this way, most of the length will be unused as a work area and you wil be struggling to get past the machine all the time.
For comortable movement you need at least 2ft clear passage past a machine, thus the combo must not exceed 6ft in width.
This means no shelves on the clear side for storage, little chance of getting any other machines past or even heavy sheet material, so in effect one end of the shop becomes a sort of no go area.
Don't do it!

Roy.

 

[Dibs-h]

If I said that the purchases were with the long term in mind, would people still recommend that cheaper options would still be the way to go?

Thanks again.

I'd be interested in how a £1k Record T\S would outdo a £300 Axi TS200? I don't think it would.

Yes - you can pay a lot of money and get very high quality kit - but in this case even if I had it to burn - I wouldn't spend £700 more on a Record T\S over an Axi one. I've nothing against Record. Higher prices don't always equate to higher quality. With the money saved - you'll be able to get a few more pieces, be they powered or hand powered.

A fair few folk on here have a Axi Ts200 and it's a very good piece of kit.

Dibs

 

[Hudson Carpentry]

I once had a ryobi table saw. Not a bad saw other then the fence. I just used a clamp and some wood to stop it from deflecting once i set the width of cut and i always used a tape measure not the fence's measures. Recently i sold this and went for an Axi AW10BSB2 Table sae. Fantastic quality of machine, far better then my old ryobi. The quality of my work hasn't changed, its just 3x quicker to set up the table saw.

My workshop is 32x13' with my table saw touching a wall. With its sliding arms on i get about 3' from the other wall to get by it. That 3' can be challenging so i would consider the impact of a large footprint would make to your 8' width.

Im all for separate machines. Not only do i believe you get better quality this way but if one particular part fails it will not mean every machine can not operate.

As some else said you will need extraction. A thicknesser/planer will clog up within a 2-4m run without extraction and if you go for a bandsaw extraction is very important to maintaining the life of the machine.

You don't need to spend a fortune to get quality these days. Axminster will deliver to your door so more local then record :ho2 and its quality stuff.

Axi TS-200 £300
Axi AWEPT106 £450 or even the AX106PT2 £650 (good price i paid over £700 for mine)
Numatic NVD750 £310

thats £1060 plus delivery if there is a heavy goods charge.

Plus another £300 for a bandsaw if you would like one. For your 2k budget you could even get a router table.

 

[The Gent]

Thanks for the advice, the time in which I have to decide is approaching as the workshop is going up. I have had to wait a little longer than I would have liked to wait for the garden to defrost.

Thankfully my Dad is a carpenter so I have enlisted his help, these pics below suggest that he was doing all the work which isn't true as it is me taking a quick break to take a photo.

(hammer)











We will be working on this again tomorrow (last day before going back to work), I will post some more pics as the rest goes up. This isn't anything compared to some workshops that I have seen, but I am only staying in this property for another 2 years or so, so this is only a stop gap and I have built everything in frames so that when I do move on it will move easily. I will be looking for something a bit bigger (garden wise), so this will fit in with something else.

 

[Digit]

Thankfully my Dad is a carpenter so I have enlisted his help, these pics below suggest that he was doing all the work which isn't true as it is me taking a quick break to take a photo.

Yeah! We'll believe you!
Looking good so far.

Roy.

 

[MickCheese]

Looking good so far.

My workshop is only about 3 metres wide and my Kity saw with the sliding extension does have to be sited at an angle so I can squeeze past. The trick is to keep it very tidy (but mine seems to always be a tip)

Make sure you have good insulation and insulate the floor. If you are having some heavy machinery then have you considered a reinforced floor area for that?

Mick

 

[The Gent]

Every other joist has 2 2x4's as I said everything is in frames so that it is easy to transport on the future, so that in itself should help.

Once the joists went down we put more blocks underneath down the center before the 3/4" ply went down. My Dad got a guy at his work to do some calcs based on some scenarios of machines and he said what we had planned would be ok.

I have decided that I will get seperates, so there will not be one point on the floor that will take all the strain.

It is a bit too late to insulate the floor, but I will insulate the walls with rock wool (unless anyone else has any better suggestions) and OSB (or some thin ply if my local wood yard has got some cheap.

Also any suggestions on what to stick on top of the roof to keep it water tight? I have been thinking about tar paper but I am not sure if that will be up to the job.