Spear & Jackson's "Spearior 52"?

[woodbrains]

Hello,

The handles on the Spearior saws are not as fancy as the best 19th century saws, but, they are not at all bad. They have a modern shape, which is still comfortable and correctly positioned. The rather streamlined shape means that there is little material underneath, which means deep sawing is possible with the full length of the blade, and lots of sharpenings are possible without losing to much depth of cut. They even had a dowel running through the grip, to prevent the short grain from breaking. Unfortunately, the one in the OP might be a late model when the dowel was omitted, just before the saws had the maroon coloured stain applied in the later guise. The blades are still good though. I fancy when I get the one in question, the handle will sand and oil up like new and the blade will sharpen a treat. I think it will be a very nice saw. I might even run a dowel through the handle, if it doesn't have one already and the mood takes me.

Mike.

 

[G S Haydon]

"The final price was 99p but it doesn't mean you could've got it for £1.04 or some other low price. The winning bidder could have bid £10, £20 or any other amount. It's the second highest bidder that decides the final price, not the highest bidder. When you look at finished auctions, it's easy to think "what, that only went for £10!!??". But in actual fact, all you know is the second highest bidder made a bid of £9.50"


Thanks for easing the pain

 

[bugbear]

Is this kind of "rust" easy to remove? Does it need to be removed at all?

Sam

Unless you like friction when sawing, I'd target smooth (at least) and shiny (if possible).

Shiny also allows you to exploit the reflection trick for quick and accurate 90 degree sawing.

http://blog.lostartpress.com/2013/05/13 ... in-sawing/

BugBear

 

[Jacob]

......
Unless you like friction when sawing, I'd target smooth (at least) and shiny (if possible).

In practice it doesn't seem to matter. It shouldn't matter anyway - if there is set and a straight cut the blade barely touches the sides and the first few passes will remove any crustiness.

Shiny also allows you to exploit the reflection trick for quick and accurate 90 degree sawing.

Somewhat mythical. Few saws are shiny enough and anyway it doesn't work! Try it and see for yourself.

 

[bugbear]

......
Unless you like friction when sawing, I'd target smooth (at least) and shiny (if possible).

In practice it doesn't seem to matter. It shouldn't matter anyway - if there is set and a straight cut the blade barely touches the sides and the first few passes will remove any crustiness.

I find SiC abrasives much more effective than timber as a rust remover. I guess it's a personal
preference, but I'd rather use proper abrasives to get the restoration done in the most direct and
effective way, than hope that months or years of use will "just happen" to do the job for me.

BugBear

 

[Jacob]

......
Unless you like friction when sawing, I'd target smooth (at least) and shiny (if possible).

In practice it doesn't seem to matter. It shouldn't matter anyway - if there is set and a straight cut the blade barely touches the sides and the first few passes will remove any crustiness.

I find SiC abrasives much more effective than timber as a rust remover. ....

Yes if you want shine, though it's a bit destructive. I 'd just do wire wool and oil myself. Neither if you just want low friction.

 

[woodbrains]

Shiny also allows you to exploit the reflection trick for quick and accurate 90 degree sawing. Somewhat mythical. Few saws are shiny enough and anyway it doesn't work! Try it and see for yourself.

Hello,

Like most things that Jacob thinks mythical, this absolutely does work. How can it not? Though if you've never bothered to clean your saw plate shinier than the bottom of an oven, you might think it a myth.

Mike.

 

[Jacob]

Shiny also allows you to exploit the reflection trick for quick and accurate 90 degree sawing. Somewhat mythical. Few saws are shiny enough and anyway it doesn't work! Try it and see for yourself.

Hello,

Like most things that Jacob thinks mythical, this absolutely does work. How can it not?.......

Have you tried it? Do you do it as a matter of course? How long do you spend polishing your saws?
If you try it for yourself you will find that it sort of works but is easy to get wrong as a tilted saw which is also off square can produce the straight line from some points of view but not others, and an un-backed handsaw makes it more difficult by having a tendency to bend. Too many variables.
Try to saw a series of straight lines (perpendicular and across) with only a shiny saw as a guide.

 

[Sgian Dubh]

I'm kind of with Jacob on this one. I only have one saw, a backsaw that has a quite shiny plate; it's my Independence dovetail saw, but even though it is reasonably shiny it's not shiny enough to do the reflection trick. I have no doubts that it is a helpful technique, if you've got a saw with a very shiny plate, but I can't ever recall anyone using it in any of the workshops I've worked in during my years in the business.

However, I suspect that may be in part influenced by my recollection which is that a really shiny plated panel saw or backsaw in a furniture maker's toolbox is a pretty rare thing -- clean and in pretty good order in many cases, but not really shiny, and mixed in with these nice clean saws there's usually some saws that have obviously developed some rust at some point which has been cleaned off -- I've got a few of those I must admit, with no shine at all. Slainte.

 

[Jacob]

TBH I haven't actually bothered to try it with a saw - it'd take all day to polish one up enough. Even new ones aren't that shiny. But I have tried it with a bit of mirror glass mimicking a saw action. Lining up the reflected line is quite difficult and you can't watch the cut itself at the same time. Much easier to follow pencil line and see what the saw is doing directly. You've got to put one across the top so it's just laziness leaving them off the front and back edges!

 

[G S Haydon]

Hello J_SAMa

Regarding the rust, it does not look too bad. A light rub with a fine abrasive and a buff with some 3 in 1 should be fine. Most of our old saws in the workshop have a dark patina which is smooth. Our old tenon saw (the only one of the old saws that gets used) is a prime example and works well on general joinery . If your work falls under this bracket then it should be fine.

If your work is of a fine cabinet nature you might need to do some more work but I'm not a fine cabinet maker so I could not advise you.

Regarding a shiny saw plate, I have have 1 x new dovetail saw and a keep the plate shiny and clean with a light buff with 3 in 1 after use. I have 2 other new to me (unused second hand) on the way and I will keep them to the same standard as the dovetail saw. This is for my private tool collection only. If it was for my day job I would pick up a new hardpoint saw as I needed it (tenon saw aside)

I'm not sure the reflection trick is for me, give it a try and see what you think.

 

[Jacob]

..... Most of our old saws in the workshop have a dark patina which is smooth. .......

Mine too. Greyish and blotchy. I imagine that I can see my reflection in them but then my complexion is greyish and blotchy anyway.

 

[J_SAMa]

Is this kind of "rust" easy to remove? Does it need to be removed at all?

Sam

Unless you like friction when sawing, I'd target smooth (at least) and shiny (if possible).

Shiny also allows you to exploit the reflection trick for quick and accurate 90 degree sawing.

http://blog.lostartpress.com/2013/05/13 ... in-sawing/

BugBear

What makes a saw shiny and what make it low-friction? It seems that new saws with machine marks are although not shiny, but still low-friction...

Sam

 

[G S Haydon]

..... Most of our old saws in the workshop have a dark patina which is smooth. .......

Mine too. Greyish and blotchy. I imagine that I can see my reflection in them but then my complexion is greyish and blotchy anyway.

No darker than that, almost black, but smooth 8) . Many years/generations of work on oak and the like I would assume. No chance of a reflection. Just so I can be shot down in flames I think old saws are hard to shine because of the steel used? Always ends up greyish rather than mirror?

 

[Jacob]

........

What makes a saw shiny and what make it low-friction? It seems that new saws with machine marks are although not shiny, but still low-friction...

Sam

Low friction is achieved by "taking the sharpness off"
flattening-polishing-and-friction-t68962.html
not necessarily by polishing to mirror finish

 

[woodbrains]

Shiny also allows you to exploit the reflection trick for quick and accurate 90 degree sawing. Somewhat mythical. Few saws are shiny enough and anyway it doesn't work! Try it and see for yourself.

Hello,

Like most things that Jacob thinks mythical, this absolutely does work. How can it not?.......

Have you tried it? Do you do it as a matter of course? How long do you spend polishing your saws?
If you try it for yourself you will find that it sort of works but is easy to get wrong as a tilted saw which is also off square can produce the straight line from some points of view but not others, and an un-backed handsaw makes it more difficult by having a tendency to bend. Too many variables.
Try to saw a series of straight lines (perpendicular and across) with only a shiny saw as a guide.

O

Hello,

Have never polished a saw to a shine, but do remove rust on old ones with SiC paper. As far as the reflection trick, I was only doing it the other day with a cheap hard point tenon saw, reserved for cutting rubbish. It is surprising how un-Shiny the saw can be for it to work, as long as it is bright steel, not rust pitted and tarnished, though.

It doesn't surprise me that Jacob hasn't actually tried it himself but finds himself qualified to give his 'expert?' Judgement.

My good saws are Pax rip dovetail, Atkinson walker tenons with hand made handles. and Roberts and Lee crosscut dovetail. Some have still got a near mirror polish from new and all reflect more than enough to show a reflection of the wood.anyone who chucks their saws in a toolbox should have them ceremonially removed and confiscated, until they realise that good tools should be treated with more respect; shiny saw plates being the least of their worries. Do these people like lost teeth and bent plates.
Of course I always mark lines on my work, but the reflection gives a good datum for vertical as you make the cut. You don't even think about it, but you can make micro corrections as you go to stay straight and perpendicular.

Mike.

 

[Jacob]

........
It doesn't surprise me that Jacob hasn't actually tried it himself but finds himself qualified to give his 'expert?' Judgement

.I'm as entitled as you are to make wild hypothetical guesses! I have tried it experimentally with a mirror.

 

[G S Haydon]

How was the mirror filed, rip or cross cut

 

[woodbrains]

Hello,

A mirror only has one reflective side, whereas a bright saw plate has two. It is important when 'experimenting' to replicate the conditions or the result will be spurious.

Reflection on two sides means it is impossible not to have the saw square and vertical, there is only one outcome which can satisfy the conditions.

Mike.

 

[dm65]

How was the mirror filed, rip or cross cut

Nice one =D>