Something to think about young people

[Shady]

Seems like we're in agreement then - hoorah!! :wink:

Your point is good - although I do still worry that the society they're going to have to survive in is inherently competitive. Somewhere along the line, we all have to learn to take disappointment on the chin, and realise that we can't all be good at everything: it's precisely those 'disappointed competitors who might harbour negative feelings' who need to be taught how to cope with them, rather than trying to 'hide' the issue from them in their education. I'm a very disappointed competitor with the likes of Branson and Gates - but I don't let it affect my behaviour...

At the same time, I also very strongly believe that all real pressure should come from within. The best message is that it doesn't actually matter where you 'come' in any competition, but that if you can go to bed knowing that you did your very best, then you can sleep well. Johnny Wilkinson, Kelly Holmes - they're role models for any youngster. (I think D of E is still running ?- I'm pretty sure it's on at my kids' school)

 

[Anonymous]

Hi Gill

I agree with most of your points wholeheartedly , although one cannot just blame schools. The corriculum is pretty poor these days and teachers are constrained in what they can do or teach.

It is my strong belief that the main culprit is parents. If kids are given the latest Nike this and Adidas that or gameboy+++, PC, DVDs etc. etc. everytime they want one, then it is no wonder they want everything (including fame and fortune) to be instant and on a plate!!

I see this need for instant reward in my students, many of whom expect my examinations to simply test their recollection of the lectures I delivered rather than demonstrating understanding of the material

I think that good strong motivations coupled with some degree of punishment is the key. Kids cannot be punished at school these days. When I was at secondary school, if you gave teachers a hard time you got sent to see the head and ended up with 2 weeks detention or worse and if one got caught smoking etc. it was off to the headmaster's study for the cane

Whilst I don't argue that caning should be bought back, I would argue that discipline (self and administered) is the key element missing from today's teenagers

Don't blme the teachers or schools, it is the parents first, government second and society as a whole that is responsible.

 

[Alf]

I like those, Were did you find them???

http://mysmilies.com/

Frisky? :? Fear not, I'm on the downward curve today. Should be as miserable as anything by the weekend... :roll:

Well I dunno, I think schools should carry quite a lot of the responsibility myself. Not the teachers so much, but the mucking about that's been inflicted on them by succesive education ministers. We're letting down school children in a big way; the sole aim of going to school these days seems to be to learn how to pass exams, which is sod all use if you're not going to be in academia for the rest of your life. My nephews are hung about with A this and A* the other, but they don't appear to know anything. Being educated in how to live and be a responsible member of society just doesn't get a look in. "Oh well" I hear the cry, "we don't have enough time in the timetable to do that sort of thing". Not surprising when the little darlings are let out at 3 o'clock in the afternoon! Huh?! In this age where more parents are working so there's no one at home to keep an eye on the little dears they're letting them out earlier? I'm not that ancient, but my taught part of the day ended at 4pm, and then there was 2 hours of homework on top of that. Didn't do me any good mind; fine at the subject, just useless at the necessary exam passing techniques like remembering stuff... :roll: Where was I? Oh yeah, and let's not forget sport. All those playing fields sold off, PE consigned to history virtually. I hated sports at school, but I know there are many, many people for whom sport was the only redeeming feature of having to go to school. If they haven't got that any more what is there left for them? Nothing. So they misbehave. Excluded from school? Why should they care? Yep, a comprehensive education all right. Everyone's comprehensively let down. Blame the parents eh? Hmm, they'd be the ones taught how to be useful members of society and model parents in schools would they...? :?

End of rant. 'Pologies.

Cheers, Alf

 

[Les Mahon]

Hi guys,

I was trying to stay out of this one, but i've got to get my 2c worth in! It is interesting that a group of people involved in a woodie forum have opinions so close to my own!

I agree with most of the points made so far, Particularly that you can't just blame the schhols or teachers - the system that runs them needs a close look, as does societies willingness to turn a blind eye. The competitive nature of toays world is there for all to see, for example school league tables which don't appear to have any allowance for "real" education, but are based on results, therefore it is important to keep the results up, at the cost of students who may be brilliant, just not acedemically bright.

I have a number of close friends who are teachers, and have debated this point to the ends of the earth, but I'll share 3 interesting incidents I have heard of, the first was massive news here, the other two are first hand accounts:

1 - A headmaster of a school in Dublin was taken to the hight court for expelling a student found to be selling drugs in the school, in order to expell this student, the headmaster had found another school that would take him, so no lack of education - The Hight court found against the Headmaster, forced the school to take the child back and fined the headmaster 100,000 Euros. The department of education said practically nothing, and the board of management of the school refused to back the headmaster!

2 - A teacher freind of mine wanted to get a child involved in a dance exercise for the school show, the child was completly against this, and said to the teacher "I'll get you back for this" 2 weeks later the teacher was called up by the board of management and suspended because there was a complaint of physical abuse against her from the child, backed up apparently by a doctors report showing that the girl had a bruise on her arm. The teacher left the profession as she would be stuck working at the same school but under observation, and the incidnet would mar her chances of getting any other teaching work, even though the department of education found that teh case had no merit - the child was 8 years old.

3 - A teacher friend of mine asked a student to stand outside the calss for the last 30 minutes of a lesson in the run up to the exams as she had being disturbing the class for weeks, had been in detention every week, and was swearing and verbally abusive to the teacher. The treacher in question was cornered outside the school gate by the mother (who had been sent 10 registered letters about her child's behaviour) and was severly verbally abused and told that she would be "sorted out" for denying the child a right to an education, nethier the school nor the department of education could formally do anything because they were afraid of being sued by the parents!

I am not a beliver n corporal punishment, but I do belive that disruption of classes and the lack of a wilingness by the powers that be to deal with it can only reduce the education system to a farce. Those same people (students and parents) that fight the system so hard will probably be the ones complaing in years to come that "there are no jobs" cause all our jobs are being shipped to cheaper countries abroad! Yes labour is cheaper in india, but software developers (the only area I am qulaified to speak about) in india are highly educated, higly motivaed and work hard. teh money is only part of the issue.

Sorry for the rant, can't help myself!

I'll slide quietly back to my day job now, and dream of doing woddie things to keep my mind from going mad!

Les

 

[Gill]

I quite agree that teachers are often placed in an invidious situation. Raising children to be valuable members of society can only be accomplished if everyone works together - parents, teachers and youngsters. Since teachers are the only ones who have proper training in how to handle youngsters, parents should afford them the respect to which their qualifications entitles them.

It baffles me how some parents seem to accept their child's grievances against a teacher unquestioningly. Do they never consider that the teacher might have good reason for doing something that their child dislikes? I understand that Ofsted inspections are a pretty good safeguard against incompetent teachers, so if we assume that our teachers are skilled professionals then surely they must be presumed to be in the right unless very strong evidence is adduced to the contrary?

Some people need lessons on how to be parents before entrusting them with the responsibility of conceiving children of their own.

Gill

 

[trevtheturner]

You are so right, Gill. When LOML was a full-time Health Visitor she was well aware of the total lack, in some quarters, of parenting skills, and recognised the importance of having those skills before the arrival of the offspring. She also held the view, as I do, that 'education' means far more than just the study of academic subjects.

After a bit of persuasion she managed to secure some lesson time, on a weekly basis, in a secondary school on her 'patch' to give 14 & 15 year olds some introduction in parenting skills. She found the pupils respectful, responsive and eager to learn - and the teachers were amazed! This was purely an initiative on her part, over and above her normal duties, because the need was staring her in the face and she wanted to do something about it. Sadly, when she retired from full time work, the venture was not pursued by the school or anybody else.

What a pity that the so called 'experts' cannot identify such needs and actually do something about them.

Trev.

 

[Midnight]

given the way that "the system" is abandoning those at the sharp end of the education system for fear of legal reprisals, I canna help wondering... what the hell's happening to us...??
Has the law changed so much that right and wrong no longer matter... everything falls before a "lets make a quick buck" mentality...???
Last I saw, this was the UK, not America... did I miss something....??? When did reason jump ship...????

Back in my day, if ya stepped outa line you were punished, and rightly so... OK, I'll roll with ruling out corporal punishment, but there has to be a suitable alternative... it doesn't take too many "strong talking to" for kids to realise that they're being confronted with a toothless paper tiger... where's the sense in giving unruly kids license to run amuck..??

Honestly... it's not often I'm glad I don't have kids... but in this instance I'd make an exception...

 

[frank]

im sorry but it must be my age when i went to school you got the cane and if you told your mum or dad you got a wollap for getting the cane .i thought corporal punishment ment getting your neck stretched . telling johny not to do that or you will have to (do nothing cos your hands are tied )??? its a win win for johny

 

[Midnight]

capital punishment for em......????

now there's a thought.....

<often thought thumb screws got a bad rep.....