Solar Power for the Workshop??

[tnimble]

'new' technology might be different .... I was talking about 'off the shelf' stuff that you can readily purchase !

Do you have any prices for these super solar panels and bateries ? they sound interesting if they are affordable and available !

I mean - I dont know where my nearest space shuttle spares supplier is

The multi layered solar panels are avaiable on the market for a long time already and cost about 3 times as much. Most solar system supliers and electo store don't have them due to no demand by the ppl that install the systems on houses. They can be ordered by the distributor / importor. There are also a couple of new manufacturers oin the market that are very interesting like amonix and solar systems.

However these companies are targetted more towards the CSP market and not towards the single panel market. CSP (Concentrating Solar Power) is much more cost efficient and less space consuming. A CSP is best viewed as a solar powered energy plant using a large satellite dish type solar collectpr generating many mega watts.


Using batteries is to my opinion not suitable for any kind of energy providing system. They are only suited for providing backup power for critical systems. The traditional bataries are chamical waste generators with a short life span, the more modern non chamical ones are to expensive to get enough capacity (an implotion type batery of about 500Ah (which is still little for regular power supply buffer) is be around $ 8,000- 10,000. The ceramic bateries are about to hit the market and will be much cheaper.

To my opinion the CSPs incombination with main coneected privatly owned smaller scale systems are the way to go. Not to prevent global heating (which is doesn't for many technological, ecological and astronomical effects), not to save money on the energy bill but to be less depended on a single source of energy which is currently fossil fuel and for scientific, technological and ethical progress.

 

[Tusses]

very informative - thanks.

and the prices/availablity is what I thought

 

[TheTiddles]

-If you want to use solar power to save money, forget it
-If you want to reduce polution, you'd be better off growing your own vegetables
-If you want to get away from using electricity for woodwork, try hand tools and discover why they were invented!

As for the ranting how rising sea levels is immagination, very ammusing, how I wish you were right. There seems to be plenty of people with a brainiac level of fundamental physics on both sides of the argument, if you want a similar level of experiment to convince you, take a glass of water and freeze it, remove the block of ice from the glass and invert this on top of another glass of frozen water (like a block of ice floating in water) seal into a plastic bag (like a closed system, ie a planet) and see what happens.

With regards to the entire 'green debate', the totally honest and only answer is that nobody really knowns, but things are definitely changing and it may not be good.

To generate significant quantities of energy without releasing large quantities of carbon into the atmosphere can only be acheived with one existing technology, nuclear, anybody who thinks different is wrong.

That should spark an argument...

Aidan

 

[Digit]

Not with me it won't, I agree.

Roy.

 

[tnimble]

As for the ranting how rising sea levels is immagination, very ammusing, how I wish you were right. There seems to be plenty of people with a brainiac level of fundamental physics on both sides of the argument, if you want a similar level of experiment to convince you, take a glass of water and freeze it, remove the block of ice from the glass and invert this on top of another glass of frozen water (like a block of ice floating in water) seal into a plastic bag (like a closed system, ie a planet) and see what happens.

Not the same as within a complex ecological system like a planet. At least for the experiment to be of any value at all, the amount of ice put in the bag should match (to some extent) in proportion with the non frozen water put in the bag with the proportion between liquid water and frozen water. on the planet. Also you wouldneed to put land mass into the bag again also landmass with frozen water ontop of land. Then see what happens, not at room temperature but at a temperature that would equal the mean global temperature compensated for peak temperatures. Then you sligtly raise the temperature a few tenths of a degree at a time and see what happens. These results can not be applied to what will happen on earth because the bag does not has rain fall, draughts and moisture in free air in proportian to the total mass put in the bag, you lack the effects of sea currents and tides etc.

With regards to the entire 'green debate', the totally honest and only answer is that nobody really knowns, but things are definitely changing and it may not be good.

Things are constantly changing, the planet is not in a perfect orbit around the sun, the other 'stuff' in our solar system changes planetary conditions in cycles, our solar system is not a constant in the universe etc. We know there are cycles in temperature variations, we know these temperature 'swings' are not constant. We only see things are changing more fast than we have 'concluded' from what we 'think' was happening in previous cycles by the interpretation of 'evidence' we think we can see in ice deposists etc.

To generate significant quantities of energy without releasing large quantities of carbon into the atmosphere can only be acheived with one existing technology, nuclear, anybody who thinks different is wrong.

Well I think different. It is certainly the most fast way to cut carbon emission. I even think nuclear power is a good, safe and little polluting power source. However each and every form of power we consume in huge amounts has disastrous effects on our environment. With burning fossil fuels we bring earth back to a "class D" planetoid. Using huge amounts of solar energy heats up the earth, using huge amounts of power from wind energy causes dramatic weather changes, generating huge amounts of power from water movement and the tides causes dramatic changes to oceanographic conditions etc.


IN other words

We're doomed (as is any form of life is on any planet, rock, gas cloud or other realm)

 

[Digit]

A year last May? amidst a great fanfare a plan was announced to get millions of PC owners involved in the greatest planet modelling programmes ever attempted.
Wonder what happened to it?

Roy.

 

[TheTiddles]

We're doomed (as is any form of life is on any planet, rock, gas cloud or other realm)

Ok, you're right, let's all commit suicide, you start, we'll follow... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Tusses]

Not with me it won't, I agree.

Roy.

nope , nor me - I agree too !

 

[TheTiddles]

look chaps, it's very nice that you agree with me, but I feel it's my role here to stir up people with non-conventional opinions so they can be rude and offensive to me, I'm just not used to this! :lol:

Aidan

 

[Tusses]

look chaps, it's very nice that you agree with me, but I feel it's my role here to stir up people with non-conventional opinions so they can be rude and offensive to me, I'm just not used to this! :lol:

Aidan

oh - yes ! indeed Sir

quite right Sir

carry on and stir , and I'll think of something rude to say

 

[Digit]

Don't worry mate, we'll make it up to you later!

Roy.

 

[tnimble]

Ok, you're right, let's all commit suicide, you start, we'll follow... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I'm rather eager to see mankind's extension or what kind of animal we evolve in next. Probably will be long gone before that happens though.

 

[Digit]

Why should we evolve into anything? We are uniquely amongst all of the species able to control our our own futures.

Roy.

 

[tnimble]

Control is just an illusion. Everything that exists evolves therefore it exists.

 

[Digit]

But for Darwinism to work it is necessary to isolate a section of the population under different ecological differences so that natural selection can work on the gene pool.
Unlikely with Homo Sapien unless we move a section of our population to another planet, or live in space.

Roy.

 

[NeilO]

Digit wrote

But for Darwinism to work it is necessary to isolate a section of the population under different ecological differences so that natural selection can work on the gene pool.
Unlikely with Homo Sapien unless we move a section of our population to another planet, or live in space.

Or you live in Wales..... :lol: :lol:








sorry Roy, too good to miss....

 

[Digit]

I'll forgive you. This time!

Roy.

 

[Rich]

Roy, we HAVE moved a section of our society to another planet, it's called the house of parliament. :lol:

Rich.

 

[Digit]

So that accounts for the LUNAcy I imagine.

Roy.

 

[tnimble]

But for Darwinism to work it is necessary to isolate a section of the population under different ecological differences so that natural selection can work on the gene pool.
Unlikely with Homo Sapien unless we move a section of our population to another planet, or live in space.

Roy.

Darwinism is a theory. A verified hypothesis or proven model of the
way of interaction of a set of natural phenomena. Darwinism looks only at the differences of two related neighbouring species and tries to find ecological circumstances affecting the adult population that can be bound to these differences.

Darwin is way overrated. His theory only covers a narrow part of evolution. It covers the existance of evolution and the ecological effects on adult members of species (natural selection). It does not cover the evolutionary effects on embryonic and pre-adult (grubs, child) members of a species. Also both Darwin theory on evolution and his ornithology work s mostly based on the work of Wallace whith which he has a long exchange of letters. The work of Wolff, Lamarck and Harvey are probably more important there work is less narrow and also tries to handle macromutation and the mechanics of evolution instead of only the existance of.