So much for the self build revolution

[Phil Pascoe]

Who needs them?......people with pensions, savings, businesses.........

 

[wobblycogs]

While I broadly agreed with your earlier comment Jacob I can't really agree with that one. I despise the bankers that have brought this country to it's knees, the weak political leadership that has allowed then to get away with it and fact that those same weak politicians have done essentially nothing to stop it happening again. Having said that though we can't just dismantle several decades of banking growth over night, that would make the ongoing financial crisis look like a walk in the park.

What we need is a real long term plan for the country that everyone, politicians and the populace, can buy into that sets certain goals to aim for. At the moment this country seems to lurch from one crisis to the next putting in ever more knee jerk legislation in an effort to patch up the current hole in the dam.

 

[Jacob]

Who needs them?......people with pensions, savings, businesses.........

Pensions savings and businesses are all put at risk by banks reckless behaviour. They'd be better off in a mutual of one sort or another, not out of control, international, gambling organisations, run by useless R soles who pay themselves millions every year with our money.
They are also complicit in drug dealing money laundering, tax evasion, Russian gangster money, all on a big scale. Do they give a fluck about us? Of course not.

 

[Alex H]

The way I see it house and land prices are a complex problem with many interacting causes. I certainly think there is a strong argument for freeing up more land for self building but we've got ourselves into such a mess with house prices that any non-trivial increase in building land could easily cause a catastrophic collapse in house prices which would then take out the banks. Within a few years of freeing up land there would be enough houses to go round with a few spare and suddenly all those massive mortgages people have taken out to buy a house the size of a shoe box (which are oddly enough also built like one) would be living with negative equity. The only way I can see out of this is to try and hold house prices static while inflation works it's magic, that's going to cripple economic growth though and cause untold amounts of misery as people try to afford stupidly priced houses.

The sad thing is that it's not hard to build a house that will last 200+ years (I'm sitting in one now) but instead we are building houses designed to last 50 years. I believe that more self building would result in a housing stock that better met the desires of the populace and stopped this ridiculous tear it down and re-build culture that is emerging - it costs a fortune to keep replacing our housing stock all the time both in terms of money and the environment.

FWIW, I wanted to build a place but even a cursory look at it was enough for me to see that you have to have a special kind of dedication or huge wealth to successfully self build anything other than the typical brick box in the UK.

+1

When I moved to Milton Keynes in 1983 I too had the idea of self-build. Visited the ideal Home exhibition in Birmingham and came back with grand plans. Then reality struck. the cheapest self build plot was £60,000 :shock:
So I bought a brand new, 3 bedroomed detached house on the the largest plot in the development (0.1 acre ) for £34,000

On the European note, here in France (a country with an area of 2.5 times the UK and the same population) building plots with planning permission are readily available (usual not single, but in groups of at least 4 upwards), in my region for about 9€ sq.m. the minimum size is usually about 1,000sq.m

 

[devonwoody]

My experience is, I have spoken to self builders and nearly all have said they would not do it again, their health suffered and it was not worth the economics of that route.

I had the chance three times in my younger life to buy a plot and each time I thought it was too expensive. (the first plot was only £200 in 1958 Essex) (wish I had purchased 10 and never built on them would have been the way to go)

 

[Phil Pascoe]

When I first visited my sister in NZ, we were out one day driving when my sister pointed to a plot and said to my bil _ oh, look! I didn't know Pete had moved house! She explained that the normal thing to do was to buy a cheap house on a cheap plot, then when your finances got better you bought either a nicer house and put it on the same plot, or a nicer plot and moved your existing house onto it, and so on. We used to see low loaders with peoples whole whole houses on them. The smart ones, of course, bought a beaten up old house on the best plot they could afford to start with, and did up the house. The houses themselves had a finite value : if you purchased one, it's value was commensurate with it's life expectancy. I see nothing really wrong with this system - nothing is meant to last centuries, and you know perfectly well what you are buying. This has to be better than buying something that purports to last for ever, when in fact it will be falling to pieces in twenty five years.

 

[wobblycogs]

Thing is houses don't have to last just 25 or 50 years, we've had the technology to make them last for centuries for centuries. If you foresee a radical change in the way or location we live in the near future then it makes sense to build cheap short lived houses that can be knocked down and rebuilt easily. History seems to indicate though that we live in the same places and in the same sort of buildings for many centuries at a time, a house today is basically four walls with a roof just like it has been for hundreds of years.

The problem with the short lived house is no one is willing to invest to make it something that will benefit the country for years to come. Like a lot of self builders I would aim to build a house that was as energy efficient as reasonably possible and designed to last. That would provide the country with a house that didn't suck down dwindling resources for maybe 100 years. The alternative 25 years house will have been built badly 4 times and would barely meet energy efficiency standards.

 

[devonwoody]

If interested get in touch for details.

 

[wobblycogs]

It's in slightly better shape than the house we currently live in was when we bought it so where is it?

I forgot to say DW, I agree with your earlier post. I wouldn't do another major restoration on my own. It's taken a lot longer than I expected, cost a lot more and my health has suffered. All in all I'm pleased with what I've accomplished but I think I'd have rather had a more modest house and done something I really enjoyed (like woodwork).

 

[devonwoody]

Problems, no main drainage or likely, no mains water, tank, so delivery of water manually etc.etc.
Yes it Oz around 20 miles from Tenterden NSW. Work prospects nil. Cost no reasonable offer refused :wink:

Here is another, a bit airy with other problems, no reasonable offer refused about 10 miles north of Batemans Bay. NSW.

There are plenty more wooden ones around but isolated. Sydney there are some but then the price would be very very high.

So its the same there.

Australians come back to the UK quite regularly so there must be problems there as well.

 

[wobblycogs]

I've often thought NZ would be a nice place to live but I suspect that outside the cities it can get very remote very quickly. I think a lot of the Brits that emigrate to live in the sticks in another country don't realize quite how well developed our countryside is. I've just Google Earthed that first place, wow, that really is in the middle of nowhere.

 

[mickthetree]

There has been a 16 acre plot just round the corner form me with a knackered old house on it sat empty for the last 10 years. Some kids got in and started a fire a few years back and made the knackered old house even more knackered.

Yours for just £1m.

I tried to get a group of friends, family or any other interested party to all go in on it and build a group of homes (approx 12) and live on little or no mortgage when complete. Of course, as soon as you present people with the opportunity, all those who have been champing at the bit and shouting "i want to self build, I want to self build" suddenly go quiet!

It was recently purchased and there is now planning permission for 2 x 5 bed homes on it.

Maybe I should have posted it on here....

 

[devonwoody]

There is a plot for 2 at least here in Paignton residential area and has been for the past 42 years, I think the family that own it are so wealthy they dont need to sell it and why not, it is no doubt increasing in value.

 

[whiskywill]

Most of them are either out of our price bracket, or are in such terrible locations nobody would want to live there anyway.

There is a plot opposite me for sale at about £50,000 with planning permission for two houses. Have a look at CF39 8TE on streetview on Google maps. Its on the left of the recently built white house.

What more would you want? Only seven miles from the M4, free prescriptions and superb neighbours.

On second thoughts, don't look. You moan too much.

 

[mickthetree]

flanajb - wanna go halves? ;-)

 

[mind_the_goat]

Not quite sure what are suggesting you want to move close to a major city yet seem surprised that most of the available land has already been built on. Isn't that why it's a city?
So unless you think you should build your house on the remaining green space you'll either have look further afield or buy one of the houses that needs to go into the crusher, and do the job yourselves.

 

[riclepp]

I have to agree with Jacobs first post tbh. I would love to do a self build. Most modern new builds won't last 30 years, before they either neddshed loads of money spent on them or they have to be pulled down.. I don't like the square box shape, and the workmanship inside has a lot to be desired. But at 46 it anit gonna happen. If I am rightly informwed in the UK we are very preoccupied in owning our own homes, whereas in most of europe, renting is fine and acceptable. I live in rented accomodation and I see nowt wrong with it, it has 1/2 an acre of gardens with it and is a long way from any major town (which suits me). Any building related issue is down to the landlord, but I and SWMBO keep the upkeep of the inside. I did look into self build a while back and it proved to be just to expensive and time consuming. And worst of all the architects plans were all of the square box type!

 

[devonwoody]

Home ownership has benefitted me personally, finished paying by the age of 32.

And now in my seventies and if I wanted £200.000 cash on one of those house schemes it could be available and continue to live in until estate handed over property etc.etc.

The best investment I could have made personally.

 

[Gary Morris]

To my way of thinking, it's hardly surprising prices are high and rising, even when you take politics out of the equation. If the UK has a finite land size (or shrinking due to rising water levels) and there is a rising demand for houses and plots of land, then it's human nature to bump the price up.

 

[devonwoody]

btw, the only reason I dont take that £200K is incase we get hyper inflation and then they would have my house for peanuts.