Mark Hancock
Established Member
Don't forget the Pork Pie !
Should you speak the truth?
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shed9
establiSHED member
I suspect there is a lot in this comment. It probably accounts for the 'mate's' subsequent reaction in that he knows what he did is wrong and maintaining contact with the OP will just perpetuate that in the immediate term.
As for the initial question of speaking truth or not? It's all relative in that we are all truth efficient to some extent, it's all a matter of the efficiency of it. I would wager that when COVID finally catches up with the Spanish property owner, either directly or indirectly then the conversation will be quite different.
bp122
Expert at Jibber-Jabber
My wife keeps reading this series of threads on Facebook, I think, called "am I the ar****le"
It is filled with examples like yours.
I think you some your mind and that is the right thing to do. Your mate should have respected your right to have an opinion and acknowledged the possiblity of it not being aligned with his, especially after you asked him if he really wanted you to speak your mind.
If he wants this friendship, he will come around. If he doesn't, his loss by the sound of it.
It is filled with examples like yours.
I think you some your mind and that is the right thing to do. Your mate should have respected your right to have an opinion and acknowledged the possiblity of it not being aligned with his, especially after you asked him if he really wanted you to speak your mind.
If he wants this friendship, he will come around. If he doesn't, his loss by the sound of it.
Stanleymonkey
Established Member
You tried to not bring it up - but your friend kept on asking and asking despite warnings!!
He wasn't going to let it drop. That made it hard on you to avoid it. He sounds like the kind of person who might have cut you off in two years times in a disagreement over a parking ticket or borrowing some cash. I have lost friends who were not far from being brothers and still miss them. It is hard but you have to move on.
As for the covid / selfish argument. Although no one in my family has thankfully died, we have had relatives in intensive care who are slowly recovering. Fit and healthy friends who can't make a coffee without needing to rest now because of long covid. I wouldn't wish that onto anyone. So it's not about being over dramatic.
He wasn't going to let it drop. That made it hard on you to avoid it. He sounds like the kind of person who might have cut you off in two years times in a disagreement over a parking ticket or borrowing some cash. I have lost friends who were not far from being brothers and still miss them. It is hard but you have to move on.
As for the covid / selfish argument. Although no one in my family has thankfully died, we have had relatives in intensive care who are slowly recovering. Fit and healthy friends who can't make a coffee without needing to rest now because of long covid. I wouldn't wish that onto anyone. So it's not about being over dramatic.
XH558
Established Member
Social Distancing Tourette's is working just fine for me ................
Droogs
Not the Sharpest Moderator in the box
Personaly, he seems to care little for other human beings. People that selfish and arrogant are better out of you life than in. If you had kept up the pretense that all was fine, resentment would kill the "friendship" over time any.
Peterm1000
Guest
If everyone broke friendships with everyone who broke the Covid rules, a lot of people would have no friends...
DBT85
Established Member
Where does one draw the line? Wearing a mask below the nose is minor. Organising a house party or going on holiday is quite another.
TominDales
Established Member
We probably need that 'British' trait of tolerance. Good old fashioned obey the laws of the land and be tolerant of those around us, it is needed more than anything right now. That does not mean condoning lawlessness, but as most teachers and police know, its picking the right fights to maintain high standards.
I had my haircut last night at 10pm. The 21 year old lad who cut it, I was his last customer on a busy day!, said he felt the government measures were overblown and he felt it was all exaggerated. I listened and mildly moved on to say how it was age dependant and the healthcare system has locked up giving the government little choice (by this stage he had a fresh razor blade at my neck, so i was perhaps being extra tactful..).
From his perspective, he had obeyed all the regulations, he was wearing a mask and used plenty of hand gel etc, I had been into the shop earlier to book the appointment and they only allowed a couple in at once (compared to the other barbers in town, that were packed out). He said he had only worked 9 weeks since October and they had a shop with rent to pay as well as his flat rental etc. Many in his age-group have had covid and hardly noticed it. Whereas I am in a salaried job and can work from home saving money. As with most self employed people, he had never taken time-off for coughs and colds and didn't see this as much different.
This disease affects families differently, it has robbed some unfortunate families of loved ones, those working in f2f professions have had to endure hardship at work and financial hardship due to business shut downs. Those whose lifeline depends on serving people f2f or whose income depends on property have had hard choices to make.
As you say having a party is irresponsible but some people are facing very hard choices while others are hardly affected.
I had my haircut last night at 10pm. The 21 year old lad who cut it, I was his last customer on a busy day!, said he felt the government measures were overblown and he felt it was all exaggerated. I listened and mildly moved on to say how it was age dependant and the healthcare system has locked up giving the government little choice (by this stage he had a fresh razor blade at my neck, so i was perhaps being extra tactful..).
From his perspective, he had obeyed all the regulations, he was wearing a mask and used plenty of hand gel etc, I had been into the shop earlier to book the appointment and they only allowed a couple in at once (compared to the other barbers in town, that were packed out). He said he had only worked 9 weeks since October and they had a shop with rent to pay as well as his flat rental etc. Many in his age-group have had covid and hardly noticed it. Whereas I am in a salaried job and can work from home saving money. As with most self employed people, he had never taken time-off for coughs and colds and didn't see this as much different.
This disease affects families differently, it has robbed some unfortunate families of loved ones, those working in f2f professions have had to endure hardship at work and financial hardship due to business shut downs. Those whose lifeline depends on serving people f2f or whose income depends on property have had hard choices to make.
As you say having a party is irresponsible but some people are facing very hard choices while others are hardly affected.
Peterm1000
Guest
I think Tomindales has this summed up quite well... People make their own decisions. Unless someone is going around actively coughing on people or licking the shelves in Tesco, I think we should be a little more tolerant. I frequently have friends who have different views to me (politics, Brexit etc. etc.) but it would have to be really bad for me to lose a friendship over it.
A 3 week trip to Spain that may or may not have been allowed by the rules then? Never.
MARK.B.
Established Member
Never once in all the time spent in lockdown have i had any concerns about getting a haircut 
of course being Bald has helped a lot
of course being Bald has helped a lot
TominDales
Established Member
I've gone 5 month without a haircut, our chairman at work asked if I was living under a bridge, my wife banned me from photos with the kids. But the trigger was a safeguarding inspection by the Local authority of our school and as the pastoral governor, I didn't fancy being told to get a short back and sides.Never once in all the time spent in lockdown have i had any concerns about getting a haircut
But maybe there would have been less deaths if breaking Covid rules was socially unacceptable and freinds told freinds and stood there ground.
Never once in all the time spent in lockdown have i had any concerns about getting a haircut
ditto, except I've cut my own hair with clippers for somewhere around 18 years now. When we went to shutdown, I.....cut my hair with clippers.
10 minutes every two weeks. My wife used to hassle me about how much time I wasted cutting my own hair until I asked her to total the minutes I'd spend getting appointments and driving.
Ignoring the whole covid thing, we have two people on the opposite sides of an issue.
You think he's being a dick about it but you're willing to let it go.
He thinks you're being a dick about it but he's not willing to let it go.
Hopefully he won't bin 45 years of friendship over it, but it's his choice.
I suspect he's super p****ed because he knows you're right and he's wrong, which as anyone who has had an argument with their spouse knows, is the worst position to be in!
You think he's being a dick about it but you're willing to let it go.
He thinks you're being a dick about it but he's not willing to let it go.
Hopefully he won't bin 45 years of friendship over it, but it's his choice.
I suspect he's super p****ed because he knows you're right and he's wrong, which as anyone who has had an argument with their spouse knows, is the worst position to be in!
That's not what I gathered from the first post. I gathered the guy was talking his thoughts, OP didn't like it and stopped responding in general, and his buddy asked him why he wasn't responding. I didn't get the sense that buddy demanded to keep talking about his covid behavior, but rather didn't expect that it would stop all conversation.
If it was someone I actually considered to be a friend, I'd have probably said "that's pretty irresponsible given the circumstances". If buddy came back and had covid, the response would've been more brisk. That would've been the end of it unless buddy kept justifying it, and my response would've been similarly blunt. No reason to keep bringing it up, i'm not going to agree with that.
TominDales
Established Member
While I do agree with this. There was little consensus last summer for that to happen, it is now generally regarded as a failure of leadership at the start of Covid by our government. It meant people were confused on what to do, it was hard to see rule breaking (bending) as socially unacceptable. There were (still are) strong voices in the governing party arguing against lock down and BJ kept giving in to them throughout the spring and early summer.
Even after banning overseas trips, his dad flew to Greece to open up his holiday home - apparently a legally ok thing to do. His key adviser ignored the rules and went un-punished.
Despite the equivocal nature of lockdown rules last year, surveys have shown that the large majority of UK public have stuck to the rules. The two big exceptions being, last summer holidays - which were legalised - and poorer communities where low paid workers continued to work in f2f jobs ignoring self-isolation practices. Again, this has been poorly enforced and without proper economic support for those types of jobs (many not qualifying for furlough, or for sick pay). Again both of these exceptions are down to policy decisions. This behavior has devastated poorer communities, in our region the large south Asian minority community in West Yorkshire has seen deaths in every street, with several family members killed. In most cases they faced the choice of not feeding the family or raking risks.
Conditions are much better right now.
Since January we have seen clearer and consistent government messaging and pretty strong leadership, 'abundance of caution' at each unlock turn. The un-lock hawks have been resisted and a gradual measured approach to un-lock is underway. Its been consistent and largely data driven. That combined with the successful roll out of the vaccine has restored confidence in the leadership (whether one likes them or not) for a general consensus to be built. These are the pre-conditions necessary for socially acceptable norms to be enforced by the general public.
I agree with you that we need it to be socially unacceptable to break the rules. I think we in a better position to that to happen now. About time, I suppose this virus took us all by surprise.
To face down dangerous new variants in the cumming months we will need this level of care. The recent 'surge' testing in London is a good example of this new approach. However we will have another summer of pubs open and foreign holidays before the new varietals start to rampage over the next winter - will we remember what do to. Hopefully we have learned the ebb and flow of this disease by then..
Was there any real leadership, I think in the face of the pandemic they just fell apart and run around like lost sheep, that is why I think that we need a government body made up of all the right people, probably cross party that takes full control when this sort of emergency arises and can act fast without all the political bickering and discussion. Ok some would view them as a dictatorship but that is what is needed in an emergency like a pandemic, but will we learn anything from this, no.
TominDales
Established Member
Totally agree, it was hopeless last year. But I do think they have got things together this year - which is leadership in its way. Not the strong Churchill, Blair, Thatcher or Lloyd-George type of muscular leadership we have had in past crises, but a lot better, maybe Callahan-lite??. I'm trying to think of weaker leadership in our history than the performance last summer - King John maybe.
