Shed build

[KevB]

Hi again guys

I'm just thinking, does anyone have any serious concerns or constructive criticism about the ways I've approached or built this shed so far?

For instance the floor frame being attached to the sides of the posts, rather than sitting on top? Or maybe the way I've built the front wall?

I've never built anything out of wood before, other than helping my granddad and dad with odd jobs when I first left school. Though I've always had an interest in wanting to make things out of wood. When this free wood became available, I thought well why not have a go at something

The biggest challenge I have with this project is my budget. I really don't have a lot of spare cash laying around, what with my second child on the way and I just took a mortgage out on my first home.

This in turn is the reason why I'm cutting corners..no insulation, membranes, cladding straight onto outer frame etc. Sort of a learning curve and something that I'll hopefully get at least a few years use out of. Something whereas I can say I built that and be happy with it as a first go

 

[Paul200]

Hi Kev

I'm no expert but I'll pitch in anyway. Your floor frame looks good to me - the joining plates seem hefty enough and are probably a lot stronger than a nailed frame (like mine :? ). Nothing wrong with attaching the frame to the sides of the foundation posts - standard technique for decking and makes levelling a piece of cake. How did you attach the frame though? I would have used either coach screws or lengths of threaded rod bolted right through for a bit of strength.

You were concerned earlier about the depth of the surrounding ground and drainage. Providing your frame isn't actually touching the ground and you've allowed a bit of clearance between the two there's no need for fancy membranes :wink: or gravel (unless you want to minimise muddy splashback, in which case a layer of gravel can help).

The front frame looks OK to me but what do I know? You've built it to the size of your sheet material, which is important. Being out of square will only present problems with your internal sheet material not lining up and having to individually measure external cladding instead of cutting it all at once. Structurally I wouldn't worry - it's a shed.

Your first foray into timber construction? Well done sir 8)

 

[Paul200]

Just one more thought - has the timber been treated against damp and insects? Probably worth doing before you get too far.

 

[Alexam]

Hi Kev, I was also wondering if the base is laid directly on the ground, without any stronger supports such as bricks etc. Also the damp protection and treatment of the timber as mentioned above?

Other than that, it looks like a great job you are doing there.

Alex

 

[KevB]

Hi Kev

I'm no expert but I'll pitch in anyway. Your floor frame looks good to me - the joining plates seem hefty enough and are probably a lot stronger than a nailed frame (like mine :? ). Nothing wrong with attaching the frame to the sides of the foundation posts - standard technique for decking and makes levelling a piece of cake. How did you attach the frame though? I would have used either coach screws or lengths of threaded rod bolted right through for a bit of strength.

You were concerned earlier about the depth of the surrounding ground and drainage. Providing your frame isn't actually touching the ground and you've allowed a bit of clearance between the two there's no need for fancy membranes :wink: or gravel (unless you want to minimise muddy splashback, in which case a layer of gravel can help).

The front frame looks OK to me but what do I know? You've built it to the size of your sheet material, which is important. Being out of square will only present problems with your internal sheet material not lining up and having to individually measure external cladding instead of cutting it all at once. Structurally I wouldn't worry - it's a shed.

Your first foray into timber construction? Well done sir 8)

Hi Paul

Thanks a lot for the reply. It's very encouraging having somebody taking an interest in my project

Yeah mate, that's what my dad was thinking when we chose to attach the floor framework to the sides of the posts. There's was a little arguing between myself and my dad at first haha, as I was like 'the frame needs to sit on top of the posts for strength'. My dad was like 'no we should attach it to the sides and it'll be much easier to level out'. But what do I know haha, he's been doing stuff like this all of his life and with regards to my budget and what I'll be using this shed for, he seems confident in that how we've built it so far, it will be ok for my needs.

That's a very good point about the coach screws or threaded bar...thanks for that I never really thought about it until you pointed it out. I used these long thick zinc plated screws that I took out of a large pallet. I must have had around 40 of them. I think I may be able to get some threaded bar from work as well as the nuts, so will look into that.

Yeah the framework is completely clear from all surrounding ground. It's just the posts that are making contact with the ground. Thinking back, maybe I should have treated the posts or damp proofed them? The wood that I used for the posts as well as all the frame/stud work has all been heat treated...does this give me any form of protection from the elements/insects?

Ah ok, that doesn't sound too bad about the squareness of the wall. Though, I'll try to keep it in check with the remaing walls

Hi Kev, I was also wondering if the base is laid directly on the ground, without any stronger supports such as bricks etc. Also the damp protection and treatment of the timber as mentioned above?

Other than that, it looks like a great job you are doing there.

Alex

Hi Alex

I dug out the holes for the posts and added some fairly large pebbles and stones to the bottom of the hole (which I dug out of the ground when I removed the earth for the frame, re-cycling everything I can here haha :mrgreen: ). Then I compacted them by hitting the post down on top of them, after this I added the postcrete around the post..mixed in with more pebbles and stones here and there. The base frame is the attached to the sides of the posts.

The reason I'm building this shed is for somewhere to do my weights. I'm planning on having a small weights bench to one side of the shed and hopefully enough room to the other side for a small workbench and work area.

I'd like to try out a few small projects. Few of them being a miniature picnic table for my 2 year old daughter and a gate to separate our garden from the back door step area..whereas my daughter may fall down from. I'm hoping that I'll have enough space in the shed to have a go at stuff like this

Do you guys think there will be enough space in the shed for the reasons I mention?

 

[KevB]

Also, do you guys think I should have put a double header above the door frame? It's niggling me every time I look at it haha. I didn't do it, incase I do run out of wood..though it's making me think..

 

[Paul200]

Know what you mean about people taking an interest. I was so glad of the help that came my way on a recent project - I learned a lot.

Although you used chunky screws to attach the frame to the posts I think, if it was me, I'd be happier knowing that there was something a bit more heavy duty holding you and your weights up :wink: Threaded bar or coach screws will make all the difference.

Heat treated timber is more stable and possibly more resistant to rot but I don't think it will stop anything making a meal of it in the future - the bugs will just need a drink to wash it down! Much like the threaded rod - it's a job that's easily done now and will significantly protect all your hard work. It is an extra expense but in the scheme of things it's minimal for the benefits it will give.

When I built my summer house I didn't run a second header around the structure (too tight to buy more timber!) but I really wish I had now. Especially as the roof timbers on one side don't all sit exactly over an upright. This hasn't been an issue (yet?) and there is additional support for the roof timbers from a purlin about 1m back from the edge, but all the same it still bugs me that I didn't do it. Even though I'm confident that it will be OK, it's the sort of thing that could give me a massive headache if it does go wrong (and I haven't had any snow on it yet :? ). So what I think I'm trying to say is you should try to do now, while it's easy, all the things you think you might get away with not doing - because if you don't you could regret it big time in the future. I would double head at least your front wall, even if you don't do the rest. It's one of the things I've added to my list of 'People have been doing it this way for centuries so why should I know any better' stuff.

We all enjoy a good WIP and this one has caught my imagination because of the recycling aspect. I'm sure others on here with far more experience will also contribute. Great job so far Kev. Looking forward to updates.

 

[KevB]

Know what you mean about people taking an interest. I was so glad of the help that came my way on a recent project - I learned a lot.

Although you used chunky screws to attach the frame to the posts I think, if it was me, I'd be happier knowing that there was something a bit more heavy duty holding you and your weights up :wink: Threaded bar or coach screws will make all the difference.

Heat treated timber is more stable and possibly more resistant to rot but I don't think it will stop anything making a meal of it in the future - the bugs will just need a drink to wash it down! Much like the threaded rod - it's a job that's easily done now and will significantly protect all your hard work. It is an extra expense but in the scheme of things it's minimal for the benefits it will give.

When I built my summer house I didn't run a second header around the structure (too tight to buy more timber!) but I really wish I had now. Especially as the roof timbers on one side don't all sit exactly over an upright. This hasn't been an issue (yet?) and there is additional support for the roof timbers from a purlin about 1m back from the edge, but all the same it still bugs me that I didn't do it. Even though I'm confident that it will be OK, it's the sort of thing that could give me a massive headache if it does go wrong (and I haven't had any snow on it yet :? ). So what I think I'm trying to say is you should try to do now, while it's easy, all the things you think you might get away with not doing - because if you don't you could regret it big time in the future. I would double head at least your front wall, even if you don't do the rest. It's one of the things I've added to my list of 'People have been doing it this way for centuries so why should I know any better' stuff.

We all enjoy a good WIP and this one has caught my imagination because of the recycling aspect. I'm sure others on here with far more experience will also contribute. Great job so far Kev. Looking forward to updates.

Hi mate

Yeah it's very encouraging when people reply and offer me advice or compliments on my work :mrgreen: I'm learning all the time with this project and the advice on here is great.

Do you know what I need to look for with regards to treatment? I haven't a clue haha, is it that green stuff?

Yeah, I was going to miss out the second top plate as I didn't think I'd have enough wood. I'm definitely going to add one now though as I've pretty much built the two biggest parts (front and back) and it looks like I have quite a bit wood left. Need to keep 11 lengths for the rafters though..so need to stay on the ball with that . I was more specifically worried about the door frame itself. I should have put a double header above it as I'm worried that it may bow with the weight of the roof. I may still add one at a later date, though it means taking the cripple studs back out.

Ha I think that's probably the most enjoyable thing about..the fact I'm building it on the cheap. Nobody likes spending money, unless they have to, right? :mrgreen:

Anyways my dad is poorly and couldn't make it today, so I decided to have a go at building the back wall on my own.. Just need to add the noggins, then on to the sides.

I'm pretty happy with it so far and only 5mm out of square this time :mrgreen:

The picture above shows were the ground banks away underneath the left hand side of the shed. The people who lived here before us had a small shed sitting on this side and it had sunk a little at one side. Do you guys think I should put some paving slabs under this section, so as if it does start to sink here, it will spread the weight, touch the slabs and maybe slow it down or stop it all together?

This last picture shows were I've temporarily pinned back the soil/grass. It was starting to give way and fall under the shed when I was walking around the frame. I just used some wooden boards and managed to get some steel box section from work which I hammered into the ground to hold the boards into place.

So far so good (I think :roll: ). I'm pretty chuffed that I managed that wall by myself hehe :mrgreen:

 

[Paul200]

Hi Kev

There are loads of different products available. The last lot I bought to treat the roof timbers in our old house cost about £65 for 10 litres of concentrate and a pump spray gun - but that was serious industrial stuff that saved me a lot of money by doing it myself. Something like this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lumberjack-Tr ... Sw0e9Ur5Z0 would do if your putting it on by brush. Have a look around on Google or even a builders merchant maybe?

I wouldn't worry about possible sinking until it happens - and it probably won't. And holding the soil and grass back like that is a good move.

Still going well Kev. Hope your Dad feels better now.

Cheers

Paul

 

[KevB]

Thanks mate. He's getting tested for strokes tomorrow so I've been worried lately, I'm hoping he's going to be ok.

Ok thanks for that link, I'll have a look around and see what I can find. I'm definitely going to treat the wood now as it's not really water that I fear but the insects (hammer).

I've been looking at threaded bar. Do you think m12 is thick enough? It's only around £2.50 a meter on toolstation and zinc plated.

With regards to the possibilities of sinking. I was thinking if I were to put the slabs in now, I could get them right in and under the floor frame, whereas I wouldn't have this access when the shed floor is down.. But I don't know.. my dad doesn't think it should sink. It's probably the worst thing that could happen if it does though haha.

On another note. There's a factory across the road from where I work and it has been used as a builders storage. The firm has went bust and the guy there has been clearing out loads of building materials. A lot free, some for a small cost.

I managed to get 2 full sheets of 75mm kingspan today. They are damaged (nearly ripped in half and warped a little) but usable I think. Also a few thinner sheets (25-30mm and a bit damaged again). All for free and hoping I can use them towards insulating the shed. He also gave me to brand new packs of 100mm isover insulation..i can't use this on sheds though can I?

As well as that, he gave me 4 brand new internal doors still in the plastic :mrgreen:

There's also quite a bit of brand new wood there that has to go tomorrow. I offered him £20 and arranged to pick it up. He didn't want anything at first, but I felt guilty and had to offer him something :mrgreen: The wood includes 4x2 lengths that I could use for my rafters. As well as brand new (top of the stair) rails that i'm going to try and convert into decking rails. Do you think that wood would be suitable if I treated it for outdoors?

Anyways hope to make some more progress at the weekend, fingers crossed the weather is ok

Oh nearly forgot.. that kingspan I got. I watched somebody else carry around 40 brand new sheets of it into a lorry. The guy told me later that if I had of popped over last week I could have had it as he had payed next to nothing for it..was nearly crying haha (hammer) anyways I got his scraps and a freebie is a freebie heyho :mrgreen:

 

[Paul200]

M12 bar is spot on Kev. You're better placed to know whether or not sinking is an option - if it bothers you then you should slide some slabs under and support the frame on timber laid on a piece of DPC or slate. It shouldn't go anywhere then as you're spreading the load over a wider area.

Bad luck on the Kingspan - well done on the timber! Nothing like that will ever happen to me because there's no-one else here!

EDIT - Just seen your question about Isover insulation too. If it's rockwool type insulation you can use it but it would need to be behind a fancy membrane otherwise it gets soggy and doesn't do it's job.

 

[KevB]

Well it turns out it wasn't such a good day after all..

Another builder came today and took all of the good wood, leaving me with all of his scraps...bent and warped. I still gave him 20 quid though as I ended up with 6 brand new doors, some insulation and other straighter lengths of thinner wood..nothing that can be used on the shed though. Still it may come in handy for small projects when my shed is built. The two best lengths of wood I did get were 4x4 treated at 4.8m each length..which will come in really handy for my decking plans in the spring

Ok Paul that's good to hear about the bar. I already have the nuts..so just the bar to buy.

Is this ok? http://www.toolstation.com/shop/p78151 If I did decide to do the slabs/timber thingy with the frame.

With regards to the rockwool idea. Do you mean put the membrane internally behind the osb board and in front of the rockwool? Or between the outer cladding and rockwool? This seems cheap enough to do the shed walls http://www.toolstation.com/shop/p21675

 

[Paul200]

How did your Dad's tests go? Hopefully good news.

The DPC is the right thing but you won't need much. Does your builders yard over the road have anything? Any heavy duty plastic that's UV stable will do. It's just to stop the damp working it's way up into the timber.

With the rockwool you need to wrap the entire building in a breathable membrane, batten over the top and attach the cladding to the battens. This gives you a ventilated air gap so that any moisture that gets through dries out and doesn't get into the building. The rockwool then goes inside the membrane and the OSB inside that. Have a look at 'Build a shed Mike's way' at the head of this section - a brilliant read and stuffed full of useful info. I referred to it all the time when I built my summer house.

 

[Woodchips2]

Enjoying this thread Kev and it's great to see you recycling so much. =D>

As a guide to what you are saving this 16'x10' workshop from Waltons http://www.waltons.co.uk/waltons-ground ... shop-16x10 costs £1,280 delivered and the framing is just 2"x 1". (hammer)

Are you likely to be dropping heavy weights on the floor? If you are maybe thick about strengthening the floor in that area.

Regards Keith

 

[KevB]

How did your Dad's tests go? Hopefully good news.

The DPC is the right thing but you won't need much. Does your builders yard over the road have anything? Any heavy duty plastic that's UV stable will do. It's just to stop the damp working it's way up into the timber.

With the rockwool you need to wrap the entire building in a breathable membrane, batten over the top and attach the cladding to the battens. This gives you a ventilated air gap so that any moisture that gets through dries out and doesn't get into the building. The rockwool then goes inside the membrane and the OSB inside that. Have a look at 'Build a shed Mike's way' at the head of this section - a brilliant read and stuffed full of useful info. I referred to it all the time when I built my summer house.

Thanks for asking Paul. I mixed the dates up, it's actually tomorrow for his scans. He seemed ok earlier when he picked my wood up for me. Hopefully it will be something that can be treated so we can get him back to health again.

We do have plastic at work that we use to put in road signs. It is made to withstand the outdoors so maybe this would be suitable? I could ask my boss if I could have a few offcuts and cut them to size on the guillotine at work. The builders is all cleared out now, so that's the end of that freebie outlet haha

Ok mate, will have a look at mikes thread for ideas. So is it cladding, battens, membrane, rockwool, osb board? Or is there another membrane between the rockwool and osb? I think two membranes is starting to trigger my budget alarm haha..so hoping it's just the one.

Enjoying this thread Kev and it's great to see you recycling so much. =D>

As a guide to what you are saving this 16'x10' workshop from Waltons http://www.waltons.co.uk/waltons-ground ... shop-16x10 costs £1,280 delivered and the framing is just 2"x 1". (hammer)

Are you likely to be dropping heavy weights on the floor? If you are maybe thick about strengthening the floor in that area.

Regards Keith

Hi Keith

Thanks for taking an interest mate. I'm really enjoying it so far, it's like a mini challenge for me working to a budget. And if everything goes ok I should end up with a half decent shed for a lot less than it would cost to buy one outright

Wow that's a thin frame on that shed :shock: When I first thought of the idea of making this shed with as much recycled or freebies as possible. I had an original target of £500 all in. Though now I think i'd be happy to go over that by say a hundred or two. At first I was just going to make the walls really basic..cladding, frame and osb. I'm now thinking that if I can have a look around for cheap insulation here and there I may as well insulate it as well. I have a while yet before i'm certain i'll be insulating it or not...so some time to look around.

Then there's electrics..two double sockets, strip light, armoured cable, internal cable etc, I haven't even looked into the cost of this yet, meaning the costs could go up even higher. Still going to be quite a bit cheaper than buying one of those ready built sheds and hopefully mine will be stronger as well

I'll need to start looking for cladding soon. If I can find something for around £200 i'd be a happy man...that's going to be quite a challenge though haha

The weights are quite heavy what I use. Probs be around 150-200kg in there as well as my bench. I do take care when lifting them and moving them around, lowering them gently to the ground etc. This was another reason why I wanted to add the slabs, as this is the area where the weights will be. I'll keep an eye out in this area and thanks for heads up

 

[KevB]

Hey guys

Does anyone have any tips to prevent cladding from shrinking and moving apart? I've read a few stories of this happening and it doesn't sound good (hammer)

I'm unsure as to which way to go with the outside. Looking at some pics on Google, batten and board type finish can look quite good..though I'm guessing this will probably be a more expensive option?

 

[Woodchips2]

Hi Kev, I've built sheds clad in feather edged boarding and shiplap. I've found feather edged to be the easiest to put up and the least trouble with shrinkage causing gaps. An old professional shed builder who built sheds out of oak told me to use just one nail per fixing across the width of the board which is then hidden by the next board and it seemed to work.

Regards Keith

 

[Paul200]

+1 for featheredge or plain weatherboard. Here's a link to Mike Garnham's workshop build - section on nailing these boards. http://www.thewoodhaven2.co.uk/viewtopi ... &start=250
This is the method I used on my Sitooterie - makes a lot of sense with regard to shrinkage and the crucifix spacers save a **** of a lot of time. And you don't have to grow an extra arm :lol:

 

[KevB]

Ok thanks for the advice Keith and Paul

I had a look online for weatherboard in and around the sunderland/Newcastle area, though it all seems to be shiplap/loglap. I'll have another look around and see if I can find any. Sounds like a great tip using just the one nail, I checked out that link Paul and it all makes perfect sense using this method.

Well I managed to make a little more progress today..

Nearly completed the two sides and I only managed to get them perfectly square :mrgreen: Just the rest of the noggins to add and the sloped sections at the top.

That's the insulation I got for free

Does anyone have any idea what shade that might be on the fence? I think they used the same on the shed even though it looks different. I could ask my neighbour but I don't like to bother them. I quite like it and i'd possibly paint my two sheds and fences with it..

 

[KevB]

Hey guys

Could any of you experienced shed builders give me some quick advice about these doors..

They are heavy duty shed doors (x2) measuring 6 1/2 feet x 2 1/2 feet. Do you think I could modify/cut them to suit my door size? The opening I have on my shed is 6ft x 4ft. Maybe keep one at the original width and cut the height to suit, then cut the other on both dimensions, leaving me with a big door and smaller door? Or modify both equally to fit m shed?

Could it be done or would I be wasting my money?

Any advice would be great guys as is a good deal for both doors..