Well, one thing is for sure. Sharpening threads are just as decisive on the UK forums as they are here in the states.
Sharpening
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Jacob
What goes around comes around.
100% typical of modern sharpening. Making something simple seem difficult and needing gadgets which you have to buy.
Robbo3
Established Member
Jacob said:
Cheaper and utterly superior is freehand with 2 or 3 oilstones. Less than £50 will see you kitted out for life.
Sharpening got rewritten by maniacs, sometime in the 80s, with the boom in DIY and hack magazine writers. Almost all traces of the simple trad system have been written out of the record
For most, wood turning is a hobby & supposed to be fun. As we progress we should improve but the speed at which we progress is different for each person depending on their knowledge, ability & equipment.
Cheaper and utterly superior is freehand with 2 or 3 oilstones. Less than £50 will see you kitted out for life.
Sharpening got rewritten by maniacs, sometime in the 80s, with the boom in DIY and hack magazine writers. Almost all traces of the simple trad system have been written out of the record
Both of you are giving advice to an absolute beginner who is presumably working on his own with no supervision. Are you going to take responsibility if he gives up because he took your extreme advice?
For most, wood turning is a hobby & supposed to be fun. As we progress we should improve but the speed at which we progress is different for each person depending on their knowledge, ability & equipment.
Jacob
What goes around comes around.
We were all beginners.
Normal freehand sharpening is a very simple thing to do and the skill levels required in turning or other woodwork are much more demanding.
Modern sharpening is not easy, is expensive, and quite likely to put you off for life, not least the vast array of conflicting opinions and kit options offered.
Us mere ordinary mortals manage quite well using a jig thanks and I have done so for over 65 years..... I also like Marmite!..... Plus my diamond water stone, leather strop and stick of fine honing compound.
mudman
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Normal freehand sharpening is simple if the profiles are simple, but can be made simpler if the user desires, by using a jig of some sort. Any sort, it doesn't really matter, it's up to them.
Other profiles such as carving tools or woodturning tools are more complex and I have no doubt that people can learning to freehand sharpen them. I did with carving tools, but only because I had nothing else available. If I had a Tormek with all the jigs, for example, I would have definitely used that as a a repeatable, easier and with the reduced need to think or get the correct stance or muscle memory is actually simpler.
Woodturning tools, due to the nature of the profiles, the type of steel and frequency of 'touching up' result in powered methods with a suitable jig being best suited to the task. I would be willing to bet that there are no serious woodturners in this country who make use of static oilstones to maintain an edge of their tools. There are probably several that 'freehand' an edge but I bet even they use a tilting platform of some sort and have some way of setting the angle. Are they using jigs? Is that gadget-mania?
The investment in the equipment varies and can be as large or as small as is wanted. What is important is that the user has a system that they are comfortable with and can use in the practice of their craft.
What I can't understand is not why you have to immediately jump in on any thread like this with you opinion, I get that, I have met many people like you that insist on 'having their say' even if it flies in the face of conventional wisdom. But why do you persist, like a dog with a bone to go on and on, constantly whining about 'trad' and 'gadget mania' and 'sharpening maniacs'. People don't want to continually have it shouted at them as if you are implying some sort of mental deficiency. They heard you the first time, there is no need to continue ad nauseum, you may have a valid opinion but you turn people away from it and drive people away.
I expect I will get the 'right hand leg' now with some of what I'm sure you think of as withering satire, but I won't be seeing it as I'm putting you back on to ignore so I don't have to see your tedious, whiny interjections any more.
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Terry - Somerset
Established Member
10 years ago and went on a Yandles "learn the basics" 2 day course. They used a 6" Record grinder with a Sorby jig for sharpening. Purely hobby which has expanded into more general woody stuff.
I bought the Yandles method. It works for them, it worked for me on the course. It satisfactorily sharpens things, and provides a completely consistent repeatable grind. I know that catches and mistakes are mine, not the inaccuracy or inadequacy of sharpening methodology.
The alternative - practice, practice, practice (makes us all perfect). Except hobbyists working mostly alone would never know if it was sharpening inadequacies or turning technique that was flawed.
I don't need freehand - it is more likely to be a time and material waste than a benefit. Even if jigs take a little longer than a "master with an oilstone", it is quite unimportant to me as a hobbyist.
Wet stones and oil stones have their place (mainly left in the cupboard). However I do use diamond (with a jig) for sharpening straight cutting edges - chisels, plane blades and even skews.
We all make choices about how we do things. Ridicule of those who apparently think the dawn of the 20th century has yet to arrive is unfair. Equally foolish is "Mr Victorian craftsman" in denial of the benefits of some contemporary technology.
I bought the Yandles method. It works for them, it worked for me on the course. It satisfactorily sharpens things, and provides a completely consistent repeatable grind. I know that catches and mistakes are mine, not the inaccuracy or inadequacy of sharpening methodology.
The alternative - practice, practice, practice (makes us all perfect). Except hobbyists working mostly alone would never know if it was sharpening inadequacies or turning technique that was flawed.
I don't need freehand - it is more likely to be a time and material waste than a benefit. Even if jigs take a little longer than a "master with an oilstone", it is quite unimportant to me as a hobbyist.
Wet stones and oil stones have their place (mainly left in the cupboard). However I do use diamond (with a jig) for sharpening straight cutting edges - chisels, plane blades and even skews.
We all make choices about how we do things. Ridicule of those who apparently think the dawn of the 20th century has yet to arrive is unfair. Equally foolish is "Mr Victorian craftsman" in denial of the benefits of some contemporary technology.
As usual people are arguing about the question: "How long is a piece of string?"
The answer is always; "It depends..."
Most people can learn to sharpen tools to a degree of accuracy sufficient for woodworking. However, it takes time; more or less time depending on your physical abilities and age.
If you are willing to invest the time and effort to learn the skill then great, it will be quicker (and cheaper) than using a jig.
However, if you prefer to spend your precious hours learning how to use the tools and doing actual woodworking then great, have fun.
The answer is always; "It depends..."
Most people can learn to sharpen tools to a degree of accuracy sufficient for woodworking. However, it takes time; more or less time depending on your physical abilities and age.
If you are willing to invest the time and effort to learn the skill then great, it will be quicker (and cheaper) than using a jig.
However, if you prefer to spend your precious hours learning how to use the tools and doing actual woodworking then great, have fun.
Not always gadgets but if you have both time and skill then there is really nothing that cannot be made with a decent set of handtools but time is money so some are just looking to do something faster but an awful lot like myself use tools and such to patch up gaps in our skills to allow us to do a job which we would not do very well with handtools.
Reading through this thread there have been a lot of ideas mentioned but it does seem that skill can reduce cost, once you have been taught then you are set for life otherwise you have to buy your way out of the skills shortage, ie Tormek .
mudman
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Well, Isaac Asimov said that the length of a piece of string is precisely twice the distance from either end to the middle. I usually go with this as an answer.
He also had an answer for the immovable object/irresistible force thing too but I won't go into that here.
I’ve recommended this setup to several wood turners on a tight budget. Some of them had a grinder already so they just needed to get the Sorby jig. I never heard any complaints from those that bought it.
Then again, I’ve recommended the Pro Edge as well to those that have the money and they haven’t complained either, quite the contrary. I prefer the Ultimate Edge but that’s another story.
Steve H01
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I still like the two part heirloom sharpening jig handed down as legacy from my four bears.
It's minutely adjustable, works with all edge shapes and sizes including chisels, gouges, saws, scissors and pencils and as a bonus peels oranges and tickles kittens.
Quite handy, really.
It's minutely adjustable, works with all edge shapes and sizes including chisels, gouges, saws, scissors and pencils and as a bonus peels oranges and tickles kittens.
Quite handy, really.
Inspector
Nyuck, Nyuck, Nyuck!
I assume you're looking for a picture of the four bears right?
Steve H01
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Hehehe afraid only have photo of one bear on submarine patrol (don't know what in - much earlier than nimrod, wellington(?) perhaps)
The inherited jigs still work well after sixty years in spite of rattling a bit. Took a 10 minute demo and just a few days shoptime to reach rough working sharp: performance quickly improves so I haven't used a non biological sharpening aid for donkeys' years.
The inherited jigs still work well after sixty years in spite of rattling a bit. Took a 10 minute demo and just a few days shoptime to reach rough working sharp: performance quickly improves so I haven't used a non biological sharpening aid for donkeys' years.
Inspector
Nyuck, Nyuck, Nyuck!
Oh I am a little slow this week. 
I thought you actually had a different jig and not your hands. Maybe it was the four bears 
spelling of forebears that threw me? 
Pete
I thought you actually had a different jig and not your hands. Maybe it was the four bears spelling of forebears that threw me? Pete
Jacob
What goes around comes around.
I was wondering about Goldilocks and the four bears. 
I find that my inherited bio jig is really good at hitting 30º precisely enough. Other angles being just "a bit more" or "a bit less".
I find that my inherited bio jig is really good at hitting 30º precisely enough. Other angles being just "a bit more" or "a bit less".
John Brown
Freeloading Social media influenza
Chisel and plane irons I can cope with freehand, although I probably do better with a honing guide. When it comes to turning tools, as a total novice,I reckon I could probably learn to sharpen a skew or a roughing gouge or a parting tool by hand, but I think I'd struggle to sharpen a bowl gouge without some sort of jig.
Phil Pascoe
Established Member
Bowl gouges are possibly easier freehand, it's spindle gouges that are easier and better with a jig as the sides are often far more swept back.
