Sharpening for beginners

[johnnyb]

I was reading a pro joinery fb group post that said dont even bother with chisels. There unnecessary and it cuts out a process thus saving time/money. ...just find someone to chat through the process and maybe sharpen your stuff. I noticed chris pye the master carver is retiring and hes selling his sharpened tools on ebay. The last set of four sold for well over £120 way, way more than there true value was it people buying because they were sharp?, were stamped c.j.pye? Or beginers wanting to see how he sharpens them?

 

[johnnyb]

they actually sold for over £170 delivered! Over £40 per gouge. For what are in essence old sheffield gouges. So when people say sharpening a gouge is easy ill say sharpening makes a £10 gouge worth £40

 

[leofbyrne]

Main problem for beginner modern sharpeners is honing jigs and guides. They make it more difficult, mainly because you can't get full force on them so it all takes longer, but also they make the essential "little and often" less easy. Too much fiddling about is a deterrent.
They were fairly uncommon fifty years ago, just a gadget for amateurs.
I discovered this belatedly and since then haven't touched one in years.
Takes a minute or so to sharpen a chisel freehand.
Main thing is to do it fast and forcefully, bringing up a burr over the whole width of the edge - easy to miss on a plane blade which tends to get more wear in the middle which can get overlooked.
Second essential is to do it a little and often; you keep your edge sharp, don't put it off, touch it up frequently.

I agree with Jacob. I made my own jig but generally do as he does.

 

[mike*]

The only thing I'll add to the excellent advice already given is that when I find I've not been getting something sharp, it's generally because I didn't get a burr. If you're not getting a burr there is no edge apex. Whatever system you use and however you get there, the first sharpening of a tool must get a burr. Find a reliable way of testing for the burr that works for you. I use my thumb nail - draw the inside of my nail on the non-bevel side towards the edge and feel it catch the burr. Repeat and confirm the burr along the whole edge. Other ways to test are of course equally valid.

Strop to remove the burr, but don't sweat it. Using the tool generally removes any remnant.

(Bol1ox - just got involved in a sharpening thread. Crime of the day!)

 

[bbtex]

I've just bought a sharpening kit and some lapping fluid. The kit has a 400 grit diamond plate, a 1000 grit diamond plate and an 8000 grit ceramic plate. I've watched numerous YouTube videos about sharpening, and the principles explained seem perfectly straightforward, but after several hours of practice with 4 different sized chisels (30mm to 6mm) working both with and without a honing guide, I have yet to achieve the stage where I can sharpen a chisel or my penknife to a sharpness where I can shave hairs from my arm or cut a sheet of printer paper without it leaving a jagged torn edge. Any advice or thoughts would be helpful.

Whatever you are doing, whatever method, you should be able to get a decent edge on your tools. Get your current technique working properly before chopping and changing techniques. If you are using a honing guide, then you should be achieving a sharp edge and if not, then there is something going wrong somewhere. Fix that first. It is unlikely to be whatever rough stuff you are using, abrasive is abrasive so long as it's rough enough and doesn't wear out quickly. Make sure you are tightening the guide properly so it doesn't loosen and use the black marker on the bevel to check progress. It may be that your chisels are in a really bad way to start with and you'll need to spend more time on the coarser grit. You should be able to get an acceptable edge on your 400grit stone, don't move up the grits until you do.
I'm not going to tell you what method to use which seems to be the default position of most but work out what's going wrong with what you are doing now. There isn't much that can go wrong, whatever technique you use, you should be able to get a good edge.
Oh, and concentrate on the 30mm chisel first, that will be easier to keep steady without rocking it.

 

[Katomi woodsmith]

Talking of burrs
I have been repeatedly told that scrapers have to have a burr.
This goes against everything I know about sharpening
Is there anyone out there care to explaine this

 

[deema]

Talking of burrs
I have been repeatedly told that scrapers have to have a burr.
This goes against everything I know about sharpening
Is there anyone out there care to explaine this

The burr is what does the cutting. You sharpen the edge as you would any tool to create the burr and then use something hard to rub / burnish and move the burr to enable it to cut.

I love my cabinet scraper which I think is a very underrated tool. So many many uses.

 

[mike*]

Scraper - not really a burr, more a rolled over cutting edge. When you create the flat and square edge on the top (with no burr!), you have effectively created an edge, all be it at 90⁰. All you're then doing with the burnisher is turning it down to create an angle to use the scraper at.

 

[andrew_2]

"Lapping fluid" is generally an expensive rip off.
I use bicycle oil (3in1 etc) thinned half n half with white spirit or paraffin. Essential to wipe it off when you have finished or the stone can get clogged up and shiny.

Just a quickie - when your oilstone DOES go all clogged and shiny, how do you clean it? I've tried paraffin baths, but not to any great success.

 

[mudman]

Just a quickie - when your oilstone DOES go all clogged and shiny, how do you clean it? I've tried paraffin baths, but not to any great success.

I've put old clogged ones bought from car boot sales in the dishwasher* before now and that worked very well. I've seen advice about boiling in a pan with rags or something but that seems a faff. I've also given one a good flattening with a coarse diamond plate and that cleaned it up nicely but probably reduced it's lifespan a bit but it will still outlive me.

* Edited to add that you should do this when your significant other is away or overnight so they can't see what you are doing

 

[Jacob]

Just a quickie - when your oilstone DOES go all clogged and shiny, how do you clean it? I've tried paraffin baths, but not to any great success.

Quick rub down with white spirit and a rough piece of stone, or pan scrubber etc. I use a coarse (black) 3m diapad which I happened to have from another job. They aren't cheap but probably a good investment and last forever it seems. Also useful for glass edges and masonry stone cleaning etc
I don't bother flattening stones but try to spread the wear in use. They last forever, I've still got my first 6x1" combi stone bought from Woolworths about 60 years ago but tend to use Norton IB8 for almost everything. All you need really, from joiners axe down to 1/8" chisels.

 

[Seascaper]

I've just bought a sharpening kit and some lapping fluid. The kit has a 400 grit diamond plate, a 1000 grit diamond plate and an 8000 grit ceramic plate. I've watched numerous YouTube videos about sharpening, and the principles explained seem perfectly straightforward, but after several hours of practice with 4 different sized chisels (30mm to 6mm) working both with and without a honing guide, I have yet to achieve the stage where I can sharpen a chisel or my penknife to a sharpness where I can shave hairs from my arm or cut a sheet of printer paper without it leaving a jagged torn edge. Any advice or thoughts would be helpful.

You have to hone after sharpening as you may have created a burr on the edge. A hone can either be a leather bound wheel or a leather strap. You can also use a honing polishing paste to the leather.
Regards

 

[Jacob]

You have to hone after sharpening as you may have created a burr on the edge. A hone can either be a leather bound wheel or a leather strap.

Or a finer stone. You make smaller passes to and fro and more frequent turnings-over until the burr is gone. It may get left as a "wire edge" sometimes embedded in the stone, hence the need for an occasional scrub, see post above. A magnet is good for removing swarf too and leaves clean oil behind.

You can also use a honing polishing paste to the leather.
Regards

 

[woodbloke52]

Don’t despair !
You’ll get there in the end, one way or another.
We’ve all had our frustrations where woodwork is concerned!

Lots of sound, if contradictory advice from all quarters. You will get there, but you'll need to plot your own course to find the way and if you want to continue with this woodmangling lark, it's something you must do. If you can't sharpen your tools, forget it. I was a time served woodwork teacher at secondary level and could strip and sharpen a workshop set of No.4 planes (that's twenty) freehand in 40 minutes before I had to go to the head's morning assembly in the hall. That said, the blades were serviceable but in no way finely honed and certainly not good enough for fine, delicate cabinetmaking in timbers that could at best be described as 'awkward'

I switched decades ago to a honing guide and currently use the Veritas one. In common with most honing guides, the angles set up repeatable every time which cannot, no matter how good you are, be done freehand and as a teacher, all my sharpening was freehand, so I do know. I've tried most of the different systems currently available (oil stone, water stone, Spyderco ceramic stones, scary sharp films etc) and have been using Shapton Pro (1000 and 8000g ceramic stones) as well as a series of strops from Axminster to refine the edge to produce something that's eye waveringly and lethally sharp. It does take time for sure, but now as an amateur hobbyist that's something I've got plenty to spare - Rob

 

[Jacob]

....

I switched decades ago to a honing guide and currently use the Veritas one. In common with most honing guides, the angles set up repeatable every time which cannot, no matter how good you are, be done freehand

I repeat 30º freehand (near enough) every time, no problem, just as millions of woodworkers have done for millennia, without the aid of Veritas jigs.
It is the basic modern sharpening myth, that this is somehow difficult.
You could practice judging angles by drawing freehand a right angle, then divide into three for 30º, into two for 45º, divide your 30º by two for 15º.
You soon get good at it!

 

[woodbloke52]

I repeat 30º freehand (near enough) every time, no problem, just as millions of woodworkers have done for millennia, without the aid of Veritas jigs.
It is the basic modern sharpening myth, that this is somehow difficult.
You could practice judging angles by drawing freehand a right angle, then divide into three for 30º, into two for 45º, divide your 30º by two for 15º.
You soon get good at it!

You said it yourself....'near enough'. Hoist by your own petard! Near enough isn't good enough and I don't need to be taught how to sharpen a blade when I've been doing it since 1972 - Rob

 

[Jacob]

You said it yourself....'near enough'. Hoist by your own petard! Near enough isn't good enough

Oh yes it is.
Another myth of modern sharpening is that there are precise "correct" angles. This entirely misses the point; that what matters is the sharpness of the edge, even if it's a few degrees away from 30º, or 25º, as desired.

and I don't need to be taught how to sharpen a blade when I've been doing it since 1972 - Rob

Feel free, do it how you like. I'm just describing how I've been doing it, since about 1956 .
To be honest I wasn't much good at it back then but I made do and improved.
Later I bought some of the kit and followed crazy modern sharpening dogma for a while, but eventually rediscovered the easy way.
Your school freehand sharpenings which you say "were serviceable but in no way finely honed" could simply be taken to the next level by freehand honing on a finer stone, even if the angles were a bit off.
The precise angle matters not a jot, within reason, a degree or so either way of what you are aiming at.
Otherwise how on earth do you think all that wonderful woodwork was done in the past, before modern sharpening was invented?

 

[joshvegas]

Near enough isn't good enough

It is though?

The wood careth not whether its 28degrees or whether its 32degrees.

Or you would be swapping angles to match the physical properties of each and every bit of wood.

 

[SammyQ]

It is though?

The wood careth not whether its 28degrees or whether its 32degrees.

Or you would be swapping angles to match the physical properties of each and every bit of wood.

You've obviously never planed a bit of interlocked grain. Or, puttering away on a piece of beech, doing well, only to have a neighbour pop in to have a bit of B&Q pine "just straightened out"...
I certainly, emphatically, would not use that same set up on mahogany as I would on box wood.

 

[joshvegas]

I have done all those things

And the majority of the time my 30°ish chisels perform perfectly adequately. I might adjust an angle occasionally but again i would look at a bit of birdseye maple and think "that needs a half degree extra" i'd think that needs a bit more or less and just eye ball it in.

I absolutely wouldn't bother my backside doing aything until i had tried what i had.