Sharpening chisels/planes

[D_W]

If you guys are having trouble learning to hone freehand, start with a single washita stone and a bare leather strop. Let the stone break in from use. I know you guys have a ton of washita stones (real washita, not "turkey stones" or other soft arkansas stones), because I see them for sale over there, and holzapffel says they took over there.

I can't think of anything other than carving tools where I'm wanting anything more than that edge. That includes smoothing planes and moulding planes, and for practical purposes, paring chisels, too.

Freehand sharpening is easier with one stone than it is with two or three....and stropping is better with bare leather than it is with compound loaded leather.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aa0pBnph9q8

 

[Jacob]

If you guys are having trouble learning to hone freehand, start with a single washita stone and a bare leather strop. Let the stone break in from use. I know you guys have a ton of washita stones (real washita, not "turkey stones" or other soft arkansas stones), because I see them for sale over there, and holzapffel says they took over there.

I can't think of anything other than carving tools where I'm wanting anything more than that edge. That includes smoothing planes and moulding planes, and for practical purposes, paring chisels, too.

Freehand sharpening is easier with one stone than it is with two or three....and stropping is better with bare leather than it is with compound loaded leather.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aa0pBnph9q8

Yep that's the way to do it. As done by millions of woodworkers around the world for thousands of years with no problem at all.
Why did sharpening start getting difficult in the 80s?

 

[lurker]

Nice to see you back Jacob. You are continuing flogging a dead horse here as many think they can buy their way around developing skills.
I got on that bandwagon but quickly realised you are pretty much correct albeit a bit extreme.

 

[blackrodd]

Nice to see you back Jacob. You are continuing flogging a dead horse here as many think they can buy their way around developing skills.
I got on that bandwagon but quickly realised you are pretty much correct albeit a bit extreme.

Very well put, Mr Lurker, "Buy their way around developing skills"
Rodders

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

Nice to see you back Jacob. You are continuing flogging a dead horse here as many think they can buy their way around developing skills.
I got on that bandwagon but quickly realised you are pretty much correct albeit a bit extreme.

Very well put, Mr Lurker, "Buy their way around developing skills"
Rodders

I think that we should post a rule that states categorically that anyone owning a honing guide should be flogged. And anyone with a handtool that costs more than 50p should be castrated! Woodworking should not be fun. Anyone who has fun at woodworking is not manly! :lol:

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[MIGNAL]

Back to sharpening.
What exactly is a Washita stone? I have a Smiths stone that was sold as being an 'Arkansas', I bought it many years ago. Originally it was Grey/white in colour. I do know that it's quite slow cutting, very much in the polishing category.

 

[Droogs]

Derek,
Would that be chemical or physical. if physical maybe by their own blades?

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

Droogs, this is a sharpening thread ... so, what would you use, a chisel or a plane blade, and how would you prepare for the "unkindest cut of all"? And if all you had left was a slightly hollowed oilstone, would you flatten it first, or just use it as is?

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[Droogs]

old school me. Use as is, but then I've sharpened chisels on marble wall tiles before and then slice and dice with the most in appropriately sized chisel I could find

 

[D_W]

Back to sharpening.
What exactly is a Washita stone? I have a Smiths stone that was sold as being an 'Arkansas', I bought it many years ago. Originally it was Grey/white in colour. I do know that it's quite slow cutting, very much in the polishing category.

It's a type of novaculite stone. It's often described as a grade of arkansas stones, but arkansas stones and washitas are slightly different types of stones and not just different by grading. Washitas all come from one mine or mine complex, and it's closed (but still full of suitable rock - norton owns it, and it's the same mine(s) as the old stones that say "pike" came from). Washitas are more of a matrix with pores, and arkansas stones are more of an agglomeration of particles.

Washita stones make a very good stone to use if you're only going to use one, but soft arkansas stones don't work quite as finely. In the 1800s, soft arkansas stones were sold as a lower cost alternative to washitas.

Smiths and others label a lot of stones that are soft arkansas stones as washitas, gray and white suggests a soft arkansas. They can cut quite fine if left alone, but not quite as nicely as a washita. I started using a washita only as a novelty and then it became a matter of being more practical than diamond hones, waterstones, etc (it's faster as long as you can grind accurately, and the steels you use are compatible with novaculite)

 

[D_W]

If you guys are having trouble learning to hone freehand, start with a single washita stone and a bare leather strop. Let the stone break in from use. I know you guys have a ton of washita stones (real washita, not "turkey stones" or other soft arkansas stones), because I see them for sale over there, and holzapffel says they took over there.

I can't think of anything other than carving tools where I'm wanting anything more than that edge. That includes smoothing planes and moulding planes, and for practical purposes, paring chisels, too.

Freehand sharpening is easier with one stone than it is with two or three....and stropping is better with bare leather than it is with compound loaded leather.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aa0pBnph9q8

Yep that's the way to do it. As done by millions of woodworkers around the world for thousands of years with no problem at all.
Why did sharpening start getting difficult in the 80s?

That's when the whole first japanese tool wave started and the influx of hobbyists came in, right?

Paint by number is nice when you're a beginner if nobody is around to teach you anything, I guess. I liked it at the outset, but eventually it becomes a nuisance to waste time putting things in jigs and troubling over angles and such when you can do it practically subconsciously.

 

[Trafalgar]

The only known Novaculite deposits suitable for sharpening stones are in the Ouachita Mountains, not far from Hot Springs, Arkansas. Novaculite deposits are located by prospectors who search for leads in outcroppings on the side walls of cliffs and mountains. A lead may run in any direction: horizontally, obliquely or vertically. In following it, there is no way to foretell what quantity or quality of rock will be encountered. When a vein is struck, which is apparently suitable, it is generally a solid mass of extremely hard and brittle rock with no natural lines of cleavage. Quarrying involves blasting with black powder. Because of its brittle nature, light charges must be used. Quarried stone is cut with diamond saws and shaped into many forms using hand and mechanical production procedures.

I spent more weekends than I can count (in my younger days) water skiing at Lake Hamilton near Hot Springs. It's a beautiful place. The whole area is.

https://www.google.com/search?q=lake+ha ... 36&bih=545

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

Modedit: This thread has been cleaned up and restored. The individual responsible for the personally insulting behaviour that derailed it has been banned. We all know sharpening illicits strong feelings as we each defend our own beliefs about whats right and wrong but please lets keep the responses measured and not aimed at the individuals.

 

[Benchwayze]

Since I developed arthritis in my thumb joints, the only thing I use sandpaper for these days is opening the lids of hermetically sealed pickle and jam jars. 8)

I don't think I am ready to start sharpening my tools on wet and dry just yet. Maybe when I've worn out my waterstones.

 

[Rhossydd]

Since I developed arthritis in my thumb joints, the only thing I use sandpaper for these days is opening the lids of hermtically sealed pickle and jam jars. 8)
I don't think I am ready to start sharpening my tools on wet and dry just yet.

The sophisticated 'abrasive paper' approach is the Sorby Pro Edge which would be brilliant for someone with arthritis I suspect. No repetitive pressure needed, just easy great edges.

Even Jacob bought one. Although he hates to be reminded that the adjustable tool rest is really just a modern jig to make sharpening easier ;-)

 

[Benchwayze]

Ross,

You might well have something there, but for the moment, I grit my teeth and continue to sharpen 'freehand'. I don't fancy a channel along the middle of my stones. I can just about manage to apply enough pressure as yet, but I think there's a time coming when I might have to find another solution.

 

[Sawyer]

The problem with looking for sharpening solutions on the internet is a lot of people are a bit evangelical about the topic, indeed for some people the hobby of "sharpening" has taken over from the hobby of "woodworking"! So you'll get loaded with conflicting advice while impassioned devotees of the one true way try and recruit you into their sharpening tribe. It gets worse because what's actually best for you is influenced by what woods and other materials you use, what you make, what tools you have, what grinding options are open to you, whether you're site based or bench based, what space is available, and what your budget is. None of which the sharpenistas are remotely interested in finding out.

Personally I'm not that agitated about sharpening, "whatever" would be my conclusion. I've seen outstanding craftsmen use many different methods, which suggests there's probably more than one way to skin a cat!

Welcome Damo; you will find that Custard is right: but on UKW, you start a sharpening thread at your peril! The good news though, is that with a bit of practice, freehand sharpening is pretty easy and inexpensive, which is why it's the only method I've ever used. Go ahead and try the other techniques too and do whatever suits you. The main thing is to get things sufficiently (but not obsessively) sharp and then enjoy yourself cutting wood instead of abrading metal.

 

[richarddownunder]

Over the past year I have been somewhat distracted from woodwork by the hobby of knife making. Professional (and I'm sure many non-pro) knife-makers often free-hand grind their knives using a linisher and, using the touch that comes with day-to-day familiarity, they grind symmetrical flat blades. If I had started off that way, I'd probably have a pile of mis-shapen knives in a scrap bin. Instead, I plane a wooden block to about 4 degrees and screw my knives to this jig. That way I know I can reliably get the correct angle on each side and the end result is pretty good. Even if I mastered free-hand grinding today, next time I made a knife, in a few weeks time, I'd probably stuff it up. Some makers may be precious about their skill to hold a knife to a linisher and think free-hand is the only REAL way, I don't care, I just want a nice end result. Of course, some others use a CNC milling machine which must be an unspeakable evil - they probably don't even get burned, cut and dirty hands! :twisted:

Thought I'd mention that as I don't feel there is any shame in using a jig if the results are better. For someone with woodwork as a part-time hobby I need all the help I can get and if I get better results using a honing guide then so be it. If I sharpened planes and chisels every day, then I'd probably find it worthwhile to develop free hand sharpening skills to speed things up. As it is, a few extra seconds with a honing guide is of no consequense as I'm not in a rush. I suspect there are many others in the same boat.

Cheers
Richard

 

[Woodmatt]

Having read all of what has been written here and elsewhere on this subject, which honing guide would members choose between the Veritas MK 11 and the Eclipse 36 and why.Thanks

 

[Woody2Shoes]

Hi - I have both, my 2d's worth:

Eclipse (and clones) wins on price and is quicker to set up (if you create a simple length/angle-setting jig to go with it) - it sometimes needs a bit of fettling with a file or two to get a blade to sit tight/flat/square in the jaws.

Veritas is perhaps better than Eclipse on narrow blades (if you get the extra accessory) and the micro-bevel "switch" feature on the roller(s) is really handy - you can also do skewed blades if you're feeling brave.

Both work fine for most chisels and plane irons.

Cheers, W2S

PS I Googled "novaculite" and found that "Washita" probably is an alternative spelling of Ouachita meaning "big bison"(!):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ouachita_Mountains
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ouachita_orogeny