Sharpening chisels/planes
- Thread starter damo8604
- Start date
Help Support UKworkshop.co.uk:
Cheshirechappie":2yf3wczz said:
The washita and hard arks are described in Holtzapffel as wiping out the native stones, not in the first edition, but in the second. That would give a time range that those stones came around to commercial success in England.
True hard arks are like the best and hardest charnley's, except they're all alike, and there is no natural english stone that I'm aware of that is similar to a washita.
Not everyone used india stones. A friend's father (a carpenter in England) left his stuff behind, and in his tool box were three worn out planes and two stones. One stone was carborundum, the other was a washita stone. Both very well used.
Having read too much bloggery at the time and believing the hype about modern stones, we were confused as to how he could've gotten a finished edge from such coarse stones. A little less confused now.
(not to say the india isn't a good stone, but it is not a replacement for washita and arkansas stones, it's a supplement on the bottom end).
Cheshirechappie
Established Member
I suspect that the main reason for the highish prices paid for genuine Charnley Forest stones today is the value put on then by collectors rather than users.
But .... whatever.
But .... whatever.
Corneel
Established Member
I must say that I haven't experienced the virtues of the Washita yet, despite trying. Mine is really too slow, or I do something wrong which is very well possible. At the moment I prefer a manmade oilstone fro the coarse step combined with an Arkansas translucent and a strop.
lurker
Le dullard de la commune
I agree it's because of the novelty value: so far as I am aware it's the only stone to come out of that quarry in the past 75 years.
I have nice oil stones but only use scary sharp in reality but am a recent convert to diamond following the trend offer many of us grabbed earlier in the year
I have nice oil stones but only use scary sharp in reality but am a recent convert to diamond following the trend offer many of us grabbed earlier in the year
Cheshirechappie":3oq47rnp said:
They have caught the eye of the (always say this with a gasp ) razor people. Actually, I think the people asking big money for them are sucking wind a little bit as other stones have become the "it" stone.
The only people who will pay more for a stone than the razor people are the australian axe people (but what they buy is limited to a few things - norton barber hones and frictionites, mostly).
Corneel":34la02ax said:
Go with whatever works, I guess. I do grind more often with a washita than I would with some other stones, and I have had a bunch to pick from and generally go with the fastest ones (which tend to have a lot of mottling). Still, a grind is good for 4 solid honings, at least, and since the grind is only a little at a time, it's quick.
Woody2Shoes
Impressive Member
lurker":1dqcprmh said:
Do they glow in the dark? http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.u ... r/C2346849
(hammer)
Let's not forget that with some tools it's better to take the stone to the blade, rather than vice versa, making use of a jig more complicated (at best)
Cheers, W2S
MIGNAL":gp9aj883 said:
Yes, man made. They (the literature that came with it) said the abrasive in it was from Rhodesia (something processed from natural material, or maybe just graded material) and stopped making the hones when they could no longer get them. The price for one of those hones was about $6 in the 1970s, so there probably wasn't a great reason to keep making them, anyway. The abrasive size is 1200F and like a lot of stones that don't shed stuff, they get finer as you use them.
George Wilson sent me a pile to sell on ebay for him (which I did, and almost all of them went to Australia - all but one). I kept an 821 and 825 for a while (full 8" bench stones where each stone is like one side of the #00 frictionite), and have to say that they are the nicest feeling stone I have ever used if you put some water on them. Like silk over hard rubber.
No clue what binds the abrasive together, it was something proprietary to american hone and there couldn't have been more than a couple of people making them. Am Hone shut down, and I think all of their equipment was sold off. Whatever they did, it's a really nice combination. I eventually sold my 821 and 825 (for what I had bought them from George for), just couldn't settle with the idea of wasting them on tools when there is no shortage of good stones that are not that rare. I don't know what size the coarse abrasive is on the frictionite, but maybe it's 4f??
(what I recall from the literature is that it boasted of the abrasive being square shaped or something, and gentler for razors)
No idea. Never really used mine. I think I tried it once and it did seem very good. It's in a red box with 00 frictionite on it. It might be 4 or 5" long, I'll have to check. It has a small slurry stone with some instructions wrapped around it. Box is pretty beat up.
standard sizes were 2x4 and 5x 2 1/2
IIRC, the bench stones were 8x 2 1/2, sort of an odd size. Their wrapper said they were for "razor manufacturing", I guess the assumption that a cutler would have someone doing final sharpening on razors after working the bevel on a flat grinder.
IIRC, the bench stones were 8x 2 1/2, sort of an odd size. Their wrapper said they were for "razor manufacturing", I guess the assumption that a cutler would have someone doing final sharpening on razors after working the bevel on a flat grinder.
MIGNAL":3jb8ypot said:
I don't know what they are now, but the good condition 2.5x5 stones were about $225 when I sold them for George.
The axe men in australia rub them on their race axes between heats, and I know nothing more about that than it must be more than just pros doing it because there was a guy who sent me an email about once a month asking if I had any more. He said he'd take all that I could get at that (I guess he was probably reselling them to local club members).
The big ones were a little harder to sell. I couldn't get anyone interested right away and bought them from George for $300 for the pair. I guess they were too big for the axe people to consider as being handy.
I did eventually sell them for the same net. One realizes with razors that there are many other stones that do the same thing, and that once you get further into shaving, a barber or experienced shaver hones very rarely. Maybe a couple of times a year at most for a shaver, and every several hundred shaves for a barber (the newbies on the razor forum talk of honing a razor hard every 10 shaves or so, something counterproductive and certainly wasteful of expensive razors).
the norton axe man hone can bring almost $1,000 - same size as the frictionite.
MIGNAL":2br7f76h said:
All of the barber sized hones I've seen (that say frictionite on them) are two sided. The two grits are pretty close together, though. Am hone sold a ton of different barber hones through various brands, but their two with similar size abrasives were the super punjab and the #00. they were very similar, except the coarse abrasive on the super punjab was something else, it might've been carborundum - don't know. Not something you're likely to come across at a boot sale, anyway.
They made single grit stones of other types.
If they were still making them for a reasonable price, they'd make a great finish stone.
Cheshirechappie":ow6vyfhd said:
Sorry wrong suspicion. Theere are few collectors but not as many as straight razor honers. Those straight razor guys love them (yes i am one of the as well as collector with deeper interest in specifficaly this type of hone) and that is what drew prices up for good stones. However there are now many which are not good enough for razors.
lurker":1fhrv03x said:
Sorry to say there are younger hones which came from Whittle Hillquite recently (just few I saw sold on bay by guy who got hold of some stone from one of the quarries) but also there were others made in fifties and sixties by the last CF honemaker. Also there are other quarries/ sources for CFs more or less publicly known.
Apart from that and back to the original question CFs are not one stone to do all job at all. They are too fine. To be on the par with Washita from what UK can offer you would be more somewhere arroun Dalmore Yellow but it will wear faster than the Washita. On the other hand if I will want one hone only for sharpening of thick edged tools I love Old Turkey. So far quicker, can use pressure for sharpening, decent polish finish and does not wear out quickly.
I use naturals for fun.
If I want fast and not messy my atomas do the job. If the steel is a bit dodgy Tam O Shanter often is the hone of choice.
GoodGreeff
Member
I like using an ordinary whetstone with an adjustable chisel holder on wheels. It gives a good and consistent result. For lathe chisels a jig is essential.
adrspach":1g0yglp5 said:
Are you referring the user AJ something or other on ebay? He's taken some criticism on the razor board, but his hones are quite nice. The criticism comes on the razor boards because it sounds like (from his descriptions) that you'll be getting a hone comparable to a water of ayr or y/g escher, but they are not quite as fine. No matter for woodworking, though, better if they are a bit less fine.
He does get a bit liberal with the use of terms like yellow lake and such, and using branded stone names for stones that are unmarked.
When you say turkey, do you mean a cretan? (the black flakey novaculite) or do you mean an arkansas stone from the US?
