Sharpening a draw knife.

[Jacob]

I've used contraptions too and found things got a lot easier when I stopped!
That Galbert thing is very typical - unnecessary, expensive, over engineered device and most likely time consuming. Like so many of these gadgets it has a superficial logic about it which would attract the beginner - but it would also defer acquisition of the fairly simple and valuable skill of doing it freehand.
nb Galbert's gadget presumably requires prior hollow grinding on a wheel, which is another reason to avoid using it.

 

[D_W]

There is an element of it that I can see from Galbert's point of view. He gets a flow of students, and some of them will just not be able to sharpen a drawknife (what their future is making chairs then, i don't know), and he's either going to be stuck sharpening all of those drawknives, or he's going to have a situation where he can make lemonade out of lemons.

I have a long affection for sharpening stones of all types, I'm just fascinated with sharpening things. I have been told numerous times that it's because I probably don't know how to sharpen, and I recall a conversation where our David C (and I say that because I learned to sharpen from David C's DVDs and have probably been responsible for selling at the very least, dozens of his DVDs, by suggesting them to people starting out) and Rob Cosman said something along the lines of seeing only two properly sharpened irons in their class work.

Certainly I can see where they'd make the accusation where I couldn't sharpen, because they probably deal with that day in and day out. David has suggested just today that I might be in a class of people who doesn't know how to sharpen A2 properly (I'm not offended by those types of accusations, by the way).

I suppose if you've got a class and you have people banging down your door telling you that they need you to help them sharpen their drawknife, a remedy is in order. That's what my comments above are based on, not intended to be derisive as mouppe is supposing. It's just a statement of what is.

 

[blackrodd]

Many thanks for the replies and shared experiences.
It was not aware of how very sharp and potentially blood letting it could be until it arrived!
I would think it safest to clamp at an angle, the two extreme blade ends, 2" each side of the 8" slicing area, and then stone to the knife.
We had "Holders" like that whilst honing the 24" & 30" cutters for the wadkin planer's in the mill and workshop.
Would probably work out finger friendly.
Regards Rodders

Jim Kingshott shows a drawknife pretty much embedded in a slot, ploughed in a block of wood.

Only the edge is showing, and the stone is used horizontally.

(rough diagram)



BugBear

We're on the same wavelength here, Bugbear that would fingers out of harms way!
Regards Rodders

 

[MIGNAL]

A drawknife might be a little more difficult to sharpen than a chisel or a plane blade. Hardly fiendishly difficult though. I find a double bevel knife much harder to sharpen.

 

[D_W]

I find a double bevel knife much harder to sharpen.

Ditto that, especially on the myriad of soft pocket knives that someone ground a profile that is not intended to match any stone.

George Wilson turned me on to wharncliffe style blades, and that's the end of that. Before that , I've gotten some (drop point or clip blade) pocket knives that literally couldn't be sharpened at the heel. I don't know what the manufacturers think, but I guess they're not expecting anyone to sharpen them. And others that seem like they're around saw temper.

We have a local maker who specializes in carbon steel blades, fully hardened to 60, but they're not cheap (great eastern cutlery - well, they have three brands, and GEC is 440C, but the other two brands are 1095). Their "wall street" knife makes a superb shop knife, and is lock back - sharpens in a minute or two, holds its edge, etc, and with a flat edge, it's as easy to strop as a straight razor.

 

[MIGNAL]

I mean this type, ground both sides:

https://www.violins.ca/tools/images/8D-5940-480w.jpg

They are too small to effectively take a stone to them. You take the knife to the stone. One side you are sharpening right handed, flip it over to sharpen the other bevel and you are having to use your left hand. It can really throw your geometry out. You are switching guide fingers. Not only that but the blade is very low to the stone which adds to the difficulty. Of course with practice one gets accustomed to it but it has to be said that a drawknife is much easier (in comparison) to sharpen. Perhaps it poses a little more threat to the fingers if you lose concentration, that's about it though.

 

[D_W]

Ahh, much different than I was thinking. I can't see that picture, it's apparently not available to anyone in the states, but I know what you're talking about - I think. I find those blades easier to sharpen by holding further up the knife and not getting the finger involved, or by holding them like a pencil and only allowing involvement of one hand so as not to have a finger twisting narrow bevels left and right.

 

[MIGNAL]

Some of them are narrow - 1/4". I have a few, the widest and the one I use the most is 1 ". I suppose they aren't that different from some chipcarving knives. I think you are supposed to make your own handle, not that I've bothered!

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

I do have a tutorial/pictorial on my website: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/WoodworkTe ... knife.html

This is based on the method of Curtis Buchanan, which is to create a hollow grind. Hollow grinds make for easier honing.

How to do this ...

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[David C]

Brian Boggs explained to me that the flat side of a draw knife should have a very slight curve from front to back.

This allows him to enter and exit a cut, without chatter.

The Galbert aid works very well, from what I have heard. But of course I like honing guides.

When I built one of Brians exceptionally comfortable, country chairs he was working on a way of jigging the curve of the back. Not sure if this ever got perfected.

I love the way so many mock his device when they absolutely, certainly have not tried it.

David

 

[Jacob]

...
I love the way so many mock his device when they absolutely, certainly have not tried it.

David

Life's too short - so many gadgets, so little time!
nb I expect it does work but so does the freehand rufty-tufty backwoods approach.

 

[Jacob]

.... Hollow grinds make for easier honing....

Yes but they don't necessarily make for easier sharpening overall, if you include the grinding, which you have to - one way or another it is inescapable.

 

[D_W]

I love the way so many mock his device when they absolutely, certainly have not tried it.

David

What's mocking it, saying that it's a contraption but you do what you have to do? That seems more like the truth.

The gauge costs more than two drawknives would cost here in the states. I would hope to spend the $84 on wood instead, but if I couldn't sharpen a drawknife, I'd be forced to.

It is the era of crutches and beginners, but we shouldn't run around pretending that these things are the result of an improvement in the craft itself. They're the result of an influx of beginners who hold up class when they can't master basic skills immediately.

 

[David C]

The majority of woodworkers today are amateurs who did not benefit from a seven year apprenticeship.

However they want to get stuff made in less than 7 years !

David

 

[mouppe]

Brian Boggs explained to me that the flat side of a draw knife should have a very slight curve from front to back.

This allows him to enter and exit a cut, without chatter.

The Galbert aid works very well, from what I have heard. But of course I like honing guides.

When I built one of Brians exceptionally comfortable, country chairs he was working on a way of jigging the curve of the back. Not sure if this ever got perfected.

I love the way so many mock his device when they absolutely, certainly have not tried it.

David

Yes, that's how I have my drawknife set up. It wasn't like that at first, but after using one that had a slightly convex back I preferred it and sharpened it accordingly.

Of course with the Galbert guide, it is no harder to sharpen than if the knife had a flat back. Another reason to support its usefulness.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Jacob]

The majority of woodworkers today are amateurs who did not benefit from a seven year apprenticeship.

However they want to get stuff made in less than 7 years !

David

We learned to sharpen at school. It took about 10 minutes to get the idea and a few hours of tool use to get good at it. Not seven years. 7 days max? Nothing has changed - except the desperate efforts of the gadget makers trying to de-skill everybody and sell them stuff instead.

 

[bridger]

The current state of the hobbyist-heavy woodworking industry is certainly well saturated with gadgets to make fairly simple processes mystery free, or at least skill free. Many of them do make specific tasks easily performed to a high degree of accuracy. Most sharpening jigs to me seem to fall into this category. The problem in the end is that by substituting a jig for manual skill you do not gain the manual skill which would transfer laterally to related sharpening tasks which the jig does not address. So you need yet another jig. Pretty soon you have a pile of sharpening jigs with lots of small parts and adjustments to fiddle with. Yes, those jigs will allow you to sharpen slightly more accurately than I do freehand, but nowhere as fast, certainly no sharper and frankly whether the bevel is at 30° or 32° makes no difference at all with any of my tools.

Now, to get back on topic, I clamp one arm of a drawknife just beyond the handle ferrule in the bench vise and take the stones to it. To work on the back I lay the drawknife bevel down on the bench and bring the stones to it there.

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

Brian Boggs explained to me that the flat side of a draw knife should have a very slight curve from front to back.

I agree David. I suggested this in the tutorial I wrote up. It aids in releasing the blade. Otherwise it can dig in.

.... Hollow grinds make for easier honing....

Yes but they don't necessarily make for easier sharpening overall, if you include the grinding, which you have to - one way or another it is inescapable.

Jacob, this is the same argument at per your sharpening of plane blades. Everyone to their own. I find it easier/quicker to get a sharp edge using a hollow grind (on all blades).

Incidentally, I have purchased one of Galbert's guides. Why not? It many be the best thing since sliced bread. I'll find out and report back at a later date.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[iNewbie]

The majority of woodworkers today are amateurs who did not benefit from a seven year apprenticeship.

However they want to get stuff made in less than 7 years !

David

We learned to sharpen at school. It took about 10 minutes to get the idea and a few hours of tool use to get good at it. Not seven years. 7 days max? Nothing has changed - except the desperate efforts of the gadget makers trying to de-skill everybody and sell them stuff instead.

Well, if someone hadn't have put forth an Oilstone you'd still be using a chunk of flint... Some gadgets have a use.

 

[MIGNAL]

Don't forget to make a gadget for a thumb plane blade. Another for a router blade. Another for knife sharpening.
A very special one for gouges.
Thanks.