Sharpening 1/8" cutter - how?

[Smudger]

I need to sharpen a 1/8" cutter on a Stanley #50 - how do I do it? It won't fit into a honing guide, and trying to do it freehand I seem to be getting nowhere. I can use it as a sort of gouge, but I could use an old nail for all the good I am doing. I am trying to do it using oilstones.

 

[OLD]

Cut a wooden block to the correct angle and use that as your guide you could develop the idea and fix the cutter to it with a tyrap etc.

 

[Smudger]

Thanks - I should have thought of that...

I assume its 25 degrees - do I bother with a secondary bevel?

 

[Alf]

35° originally I believe, single bevel. Gives the rather unsupported cutter maximum support from the skate (see here for illustration of why I think that), although it's probably less of an issue with a 1/8" cutter. Just out of interest which honing guide is it not fitting in?

Cheers, Alf

 

[Anonymous]

I need to sharpen a 1/8" cutter on a Stanley #50 - how do I do it? It won't fit into a honing guide, and trying to do it freehand I seem to be getting nowhere. I can use it as a sort of gouge, but I could use an old nail for all the good I am doing. I am trying to do it using oilstones.

At the risk of boring everybody to death I'd highly recommend the freehand rounded bevel approach. It seems to suit small and fiddly cutters really well.
Basically you don't attempt to get a flat bevel at all - you start the hone at as near as you can judge 30/35deg or whatever it originally was - but dip slightly as you hone forwards, to round off the bevel, a few times. Then turn and take the wire edge off the face etc.
If your blade was just a bit blunt it should only take a few seconds.
Can't be bothered to explain why it works - you'll just have to have a go

cheers
Jacob

 

[Alf]

'Course, round the bevel too much and you lose your clearance angle - starting at 35° with a 45° bedded cutter and you've only a few degrees to play with. Start at too low an angle and what little benefit you get from the skate support is reduced.

Cheers, Alf

 

[Paul Chapman]

do I bother with a secondary bevel?

The other reason for keeping to one bevel with combination plane blades is that when you come to hone the shaped blades, like the beading cutters, if you mess around with secondary bevels, you are likely to end up altering the shape of the cutter.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Smudger]

Thanks all - the internet has been down around here, so unable to answer earlier.

Alf - I was using a Stanley honing guide, but the cutter is just too small. There's an Axmister one around somewhere, but I'm not sure where!

I'm getting some truly horrific gouging on softwood, even with a very fine cut. I'm not using a depth gauge as depth isn't critical - I'm trying Alf's tip for cutting a box lid. It's the first time I've used the 50, and that isn't helping. That and making a very fine but definite saw cut in the end of my finger...

 

[Paul Chapman]

If you can get your hands on an Eclipse-style honing guide, it will fit in that - rest the cutter on the two rods rather than the main body of the guide.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[bugbear]

I need to sharpen a 1/8" cutter on a Stanley #50 - how do I do it? It won't fit into a honing guide, and trying to do it freehand I seem to be getting nowhere. I can use it as a sort of gouge, but I could use an old nail for all the good I am doing. I am trying to do it using oilstones.

Since you're effectively trying to work a 1/8" x 1/8" area, there will be a tremendous tendancy to round it, both front to back (bevel) and side to side (profile).

Once the "flat" is a actually a dome, it's the devil's own job to get it right again.

With wide blade, the lateral stability is most easily obtained by allowing the blade to "self stabilise".

With narrow blades I think you need a jig that has a wide enough roller to hold the blade laterally, which means the Eclipse #36 style is not good.

I think the Veritas with the wide roller would be suitable (can anyone confirm that it will hold a narrow, short blade?).

BugBear

 

[Alf]

Alf - I was using a Stanley honing guide, but the cutter is just too small.

The two roller fiddly one? Really? Gosh, I'd have assumed it would. Got one around here somewhere; I may be moved to have a fiddle.

I'm getting some truly horrific gouging on softwood, even with a very fine cut. I'm not using a depth gauge as depth isn't critical - I'm trying Alf's tip for cutting a box lid. It's the first time I've used the 50, and that isn't helping. That and making a very fine but definite saw cut in the end of my finger...

Ouch on the saw cut - those can really hurt. As far as egg sucking advice goes, which way's your grain going? Obviously getting the sharpening right is going help (but you know that, hence the thread. I know, I know, I'll ding myself round the back of the head, don't worry ) Have you checked how well the cutter's bedding on the skate? If you're suffering from some flapping up and down there that can result in taking a much deeper cut than it appears when you set it. Could just be a really stinking piece of wood too, of course...

Cheers, Alf

 

[dunbarhamlin]

I find the Veritas will hold 1/8", but prefer the Kell for really narrow (or short) blades. I make sure the back/face is properly registered against the underneath of the cross rods by holding down with a heavy scraper blade while I tighten up.
Cheers
Steve

 

[Paul Chapman]

Smudger,

I've just checked on mine, if you use an Eclipse honing guide, rest the blade on the rods and project it 3/4" from the edge of the jaws, it gives you an angle of 35 degrees, which is the correct angle for combination plane blades.

Hope this helps.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Anonymous]

Thought I should just verify my freehand approach. Sorry snaps not good, need a macro ring or summat.
1/8th cutter out for first time in many years here-
Before:

Same again after 2 or 3 quick passes over the oil stone and -
After:

You can just see where "rounded bevel" just starting to show as the shiny bit at the bevel and at the heel. And it's dead sharp in secs, absolutely no prob. Nil problemo. Easy peasy.
If sharpened often the rounding would make the bevel just slightly convex rather than dead flat, hardly different from a strict flat 35 deg so it's not radically different - just much easier to achieve.
Or you could see it as a smooth transition from 1ary to 2ary bevel.

The point is that this thread is yet another about the difficulty of using honing jigs - so I feel obliged to point out that honing without a jig is simpler (and quicker and various other advantages).
You will just have to suck it and see, though I can see it wouldn't suit the ETs amongst us (Engineering Tendency :roll: )

cheers
Jacob
PS I'll try to do some better snaps - mrs G has a new camera with macro facility.

 

[Anonymous]

Thought it needs more explanation so here is a better snap of rounded bevel on a 2 1/2inch chisel where you can see it more clearly.
This is a fully developed round bevel. Normally it'd take a lot of use and resharpening to get this far but this ebay purchase was chipped and I had to regrind it.
As you see it probably involves taking off less metal than a 1ary and 2ary bevel approach and isn't that radical.

Incidentally does anybody know anything about this whopper? Alf?
It says Marples & Sons Cast Steel and has a coppery finish. Would it be for a special purpose or a particular trade?

cheers
Jacob

 

[Alf]

Jacob,

A quick flick through a Marples catalogue suggests the only chisels made as wide as 2 1/2" were the sash pocket chisels. That one's been rehandled methinks?

Cheers, Alf

 

[Anonymous]

Alf
Yes re-handled I guess (it doesn't quite fit). Not sash pocket AFAIK - well the only one I've ever seen of this elusive variety was bevelled both sides and much lighter than this. Have you got a picture of one by any chance?
What about the coppery/bronzey finish, does this mean anything?

cheers
Jacob

 

[Alf]

I'll see if I can grab a scan of the catalogue - apart from the handle it ticks all the boxes but then 'tis always hazardous relying on catalogue drawings. The coppery bronzey finish I don't know; not someone having a go at it with a brass wire wheel perhaps?

Cheers, Alf

 

[bugbear]

The coppery bronzey finish I don't know; not someone having a go at it with a brass wire wheel perhaps?

I dunno about wire wheels, but my small "suede brush" (used for delicate cleaning, crud removal) leaves a quite noticeable tint behind.

BugBear

 

[Anonymous]

The coppery bronzey finish I don't know; not someone having a go at it with a brass wire wheel perhaps?

I dunno about wire wheels, but my small "suede brush" (used for delicate cleaning, crud removal) leaves a quite noticeable tint behind.

BugBear

No it's original. I read about it somewhere (net I guess), perhaps it was a special edition chisel or something, but I can't find the reference.

cheers
Jacob