Saw stop ( USA )

[John Brown]

I've driven cars without brake assist technology, if by that you mean no servo assist. I've also driven a P4 Rover when the brake servo had failed, wouldn't want to do that again.

 

[Rhossydd]

All vehicles have brake technology

Please have the courtesy to comment on what I wrote, not your prejudices;
"braking assist technology"
The key word in my comment was 'assist' things like emergency brake assist, Smart City Brake Support, anti lock brakes etc.

 

[John Brown]

Say something that says you've never driven a modern car with brake assist technology......

To be fair, I didn't fully understand what you meant by this. It's a very weird sentence.

 

[Sgian Dubh]

If there's one thing I've learned in almost seventy years of industrial woodworking, no matter how many regulations, practical guards, extensive machine and safety training you put in place, someone will still manage to hurt themselves regardless and invariably it will be their fault or the employer's fault for not following the guidance that's been laid down for the last century.

I think what you're trying to say is something along the lines of the following old adage relating to injured machine users which goes, "We made it idi-ot proof, but even dumber and more inventive idio-ts than we had in mind during the design phase used it. Slainte.

 

[Against_The_Grain]

I think what you're trying to say is something along the lines of the following old adage relating to injured machine users which goes, "We made it idi-ot proof, but even dumber and more inventive idio-ts than we had in mind during the design phase used it. Slainte.

Exactly right, I think it’s more true today because the woodworking industry really only gets the non-performers from schools and colleges nowadays, most end up going to university. When I started as a nipper you had unbelievably intelligent people doing incredible things in workshops up and down the country and unfortunately these people in the industry are incredibly rare now, there are plenty of people who think they are much better than they are though.

Funnily enough, the clever people that were doing amazing things were usually the ones that were taking the most risks but very rarely had accidents, most often it was the lower-end workers operating repetitive machinery that got injured the most often. The guys that were doing handrail wreaths were always very bright, but absolutely terrifying to watch work spindle moulders.

 

[Jacob]

Please have the courtesy to comment on what I wrote, not your prejudices;
"braking assist technology"
The key word in my comment was 'assist' things like emergency brake assist, Smart City Brake Support, anti lock brakes etc.

Please have the courtesy to stick to discussions and avoid being rude and sarcastic. It lowers the tone.

 

[Rhossydd]

Please have the courtesy to stick to discussions and avoid being rude and sarcastic. It lowers the tone.

Wow, that from you ?
It ought to be embarrassing to be called out so often in a thread

 

[Spectric]

You can tell that a lot of drivers really cannot drive unless the conditions are good, bring in the snow and suddenly their ABS no longer functions as they slide into something or they use to much throttle and just sit there spining the wheels and first sign of a skid and they are in a ditch because they are in a 4x4 which cannot do that or so they believed.

 

[Jacob]

To be fair, I didn't fully understand what you meant by this. It's a very weird sentence.

Yes it was fairly clumsy. Still not sure what it meant.

 

[Inspector]

The original saw stop destroyed both the blade and the sawstop cartridge thingy as well. Not awAre if the latest version does the same .

Yes the blade is usually damaged and must be replaced. The brake cartridge is also sacrificial so has to be replaced by you unless it was activated by flesh. If it was a save you send it back to SawStop for them to analyze the computer chip and they will send you a replacement for free. The complete manuals on the operation of the saws are all online for your perusal for free.

Pete

 

[Rhossydd]

Still not sure what it meant.

For the hard of understanding it means;
"You've just written something that proves you don't understand what you're talking about."

Not for the first time, sadly it's unlikely to be the last time either :-(

 

[Ed Weber]

Been having the same/similar discussion here in the states on another forum.
My position is that I'm personally not adverse to a blade stopping technology of some kind getting mandated on all saws.
Should it be SawStop, absolutely not.
There are other systems that are non destructive that are just as effective.
SS has had an effective monopoly with their "web of patents". They've sued anyone and anything they didn't agree with and yet they still play the victim.

 

[Adam W.]

Anyone fancy some popcorn?

 

[Inspector]

Oh Adam, you have time for barbecued steaks with all the trimmings before this thread plays out.

Pete

 

[Jacob]

Been having the same/similar discussion here in the states on another forum.
My position is that I'm personally not adverse to a blade stopping technology of some kind getting mandated on all saws.
Should it be SawStop, absolutely not.
There are other systems that are non destructive that are just as effective.
SS has had an effective monopoly with their "web of patents". They've sued anyone and anything they didn't agree with and yet they still play the victim.

That explains a lot.
SawStop desperately fighting for a monopoly on their very defective system and hoping to make it mandatory, which would make them mega rich.
Others firms forced into fighting back and coming up with alternative designs so they don't get caught out.

On the face of it usage is likely to remain a voluntary decision and there will be some take up, fading off as people measure the cost effectiveness as compared to alternatives such as training regimes etc.
Luckily nobody has patented push sticks!

 

[Against_The_Grain]

On the face of it usage is likely to remain a voluntary decision and there will be some take up, fading off as people measure the cost effectiveness as compared to alternatives such as training regimes etc.

If you saw training regimes as they are today in most colleges, you would realise these kids coming into the job need every bit of help they can get as they're not being taught properly and it is being left up to workshops to teach them who mostly haven't got the time or the inclination to babysit. As I've said previously, I've seen countless efforts to make this industry safer but people still get hurt regardless, you can mandate push sticks all you like, but there will still be one worker who will refuse to use them for this cut "because it's easier without them" and they end up snipping a finger or two off.

I don't think we'll have widespread SawStop technology because it would be expensive to replace so many machines because it can't be retrofitted, but I wouldn't be surprised if we see DC injection braking incorporating flesh detecting technology to stop cutting equipment without damaging the equipment or any downtime but at the cost of if there is an accident you do get a small cut as it's not removing the blade, much like how the SnapBrake from Turkey works, which can be retrofitted to old saw benches as well as spindle moulders, and possibly more!

 

[Spectric]

For me the biggest question is always why do people let these table saws cause them so much injury and pain when they are in control of the outcome, it is not the machines decision to hurt you but the simple fact you have decided to let it cause pain, the machine is the innocent party in all this. Saw stop is like buying a dog and then having all it's teeth removed in case you decide to abuse it knowing it cannot bite you.

 

[Against_The_Grain]

For me the biggest question is always why do people let these table saws cause them so much injury and pain when they are in control of the outcome

Time.

"I could reach for the push sticks, but it's only one cut and it will take longer to reach for the push sticks than to simply make the cut with my hands"

"I could make a jig to run these curved sections on the ring fence but I'll just freehand it because it will take too long to make the jig for one or two cuts"

"I didn't want to waste time and put a false fence on the moulder because it's only one cut"

"It's too much of a faff to constantly adjust the planer guard and it takes too much time, so I just don't bother with it and leave it off the machine"

 

[Spectric]

I totaly agree that time is an issue but once you have less digits then jobs will take even longer as you need to work around the disability, your digits are worth protecting simply because unlike some lizzards tails they do not regrow and life will change forever, not for the better.

 

[Jacob]

If you saw training regimes as they are today in most colleges, you would realise these kids coming into the job need every bit of help they can get as they're not being taught properly and it is being left up to workshops to teach them who mostly haven't got the time or the inclination to babysit. As I've said previously, I've seen countless efforts to make this industry safer but people still get hurt regardless, you can mandate push sticks all you like, but there will still be one worker who will refuse to use them for this cut "because it's easier without them" and they end up snipping a finger or two off.
.....

But if sawstop in one variation or another was your answer you'd have to prevent/ban these kids from using non sawstop kit i.e. nearly every machine in common use. Millions of them.
If it's in your power to ban them it'd also be in your power to talk them into safe practices and liberate them from sawstop dependency!