Salmen Master Oil Stone.

[swagman]

Another stone I recently purchased from the U.K. (Most likely the last honing stone I am going to purchase.)



The top surface of the stone showed no obvious signs to its origin.



But the underside was quite different, and the primary reason I chose to bid on this stone. The grain pattern indicated a natural stone, and not a man made stone.



Flat sanding with 220, followed by 400 grit w & d, highlighted it as being a quick release slurry stone, of a soft to medium hardness. The swirly grain pattern was now much more obvious to see after a light spray of water.



The next photo shows the sedimentary layering within the stones side grain.




Additional information;

Dimensions; 20.1 cm x 5.3 cm x 2.5 cm. (266 cm3)

Weight; 740 grams.

Specific Gravity (SF) = 2.78

Conclusion; the stone appears to be a highly featured Scotch Dalmore Blue. Possibly better suited to water as a lubricant than thin oil. A quick release slurry stone, suggesting a fast cutting stone. A high range in SF, indicating a large % of fine particles within its make up.

I would rate this as a high value/ high quality honing stone, purchased at a remarkably cheap price.

Stewie;

 

[adrspach]

Your conclusion is right it is Dalmore Blue.
The issue with Master Stones is that it is a brand and they were using any natural and manmade hones for it therefore unless you have it in your hand and can recognise it it is a lotery what you get.

 

[D_W]

I never would've guessed dalmore without seeing the top side, and after clean. Never used a dalmore. Are they slatey/sedimentary, or more like the novaculite-ish types? 4k?

I'm making those guesses because I don't know of many good stones less than 4k, and if they were a fine finisher, then they'd have been hunted down on the razor boards and made expensive.

 

[ED65]

I know looks aren't important in a stone but this one sure is a beaut after cleaning!

 

[essexalan]

I did see that stone on ebay and noted the patterning but guessed it was a Dalmore so left it alone already having an example. I believe they are a sandstone which would make it sedimentary. I would rate mine at somewhat less than 4K, fast cutting and consistent grit size a good knife sharpener, more of a Dalmore Green than Blue! I do have a Salmen labelled stone in an identical box to the above and do not have the faintest idea what it is except it is a lot finer than a Dalmore. Interesting how many types of stone Salmen actually produced and they are always worth a punt on the off chance you pick up something valuable plus they are well made and of high quality.

 

[adrspach]

To Swagman- can you have a look on the paper box there should be stated if they had it as Fine/Medium/ Coarse or mixed.
To Allan bring it and we can have a chat but so fat have not seen WOA used. It is more likely to be Slate the same type as YL.

 

[swagman]

To Swagman- can you have a look on the paper box there should be stated if they had it as Fine/Medium/ Coarse or mixed.
To Allan bring it and we can have a chat but so fat have not seen WOA used. It is more likely to be Slate the same type as YL.

The following is what is stated on the outer cardboard box;

Salmen Master Oil Stone;
Compares to the diamond for hardness & sharpness;
Every stone guaranteed the worlds best quality;

8" X 2" X 1".
Use with thin oil.

regards Stewie;

 

[swagman]

imo; a good quality natural sharpening stone is one that will shows signs of releasing a natural cutting slurry. Any stone that is within the higher range of hardness, that show no signs of releasing a cutting slurry is of limited value to the woodworker, and does require the use of an independent slurry stone to enhance its rate of cut. In other words, there can be clear differences between the needs of woodworker, and that of a straight razor user.

Stewie;

 

[D_W]

Washitas and arkansas stones are pretty useful, and don't release anything.

Generally, sedimentary stones, I would agree with that statement, though. If they don't break down, they just load and stop or get dull and slow (the coarse ones).

There is a second variable of steel hardness, though. Steel that's on the medium to soft side of vintage steel is very easy and compliant, even with stones that don't shed particles. Steel that's very hard requires stones that shed particles.

Having used the turkey stone for a couple of weeks, it's a really interesting animal - it cuts faster than a sedimentary stone with oil, but if you spray it with water (even if it has oil on it), it instantly stops shedding particles, loads up and polishes to a bright polish.

 

[swagman]

DW; I was rather disappointed with the slow rate of cut on the j.Smith Ark I recently posted. I am going to try and degrease the oil from the stone and compare it to water as the only lubricant.

Stewie;

 

[D_W]

Hi stewie, if that's a fine cutting stone, it certainly will need to be used according to its cutting speed (I can't remember how you grind, but if you do grind with a grinder, that indicating that you want to keep work bevels small and the final bevel freehanded for touch).

I can use a stone like that entirely by itself with a good clean grind. With sedimentary stones, it's either something like the dalmore and then a jasper with something on it, or a chinese stone slurried.

I think they're all good stones, they just have to be used how they prefer to be used.

 

[swagman]

DW; The process of cleansing the Arkansas stone of oil has started. Boiling hot water and 2 dishwasher power balls.

Stewie;

 

[swagman]

After 1 hr, the dishwasher power balls have lost their effectiveness within the oil cleansing process. The following photo shows the oil residue that's already released from the stone.



The process needs to be repeated again to further rid the stone of oil. The contaminated water has to be emptied out, cleaned out with dishwasher detergent, and refilled with boiling hot water, ready for 2 fresh dishwasher power balls.



To slow down the loss of temperature within the water, seal the top of the container. Check again in 1 hrs time. Note any further loss of oil from the stone via the appearance of the water. Repeat a 3rd time if its deemed necessary.

I will supply some later feedback on the results of testing the oil free Arkansas stone with water as the lubricant.

Stewie;

 

[swagman]

An update on the oil cleansing process. I noticed that some oil had been trapped on the underside of the stone during the 2nd round.
I opted for a 3rd round lasting only 30 min, this time making sure that I gently lifted the stone from side to side within its water bath to allow the loose oil to rise to the top of the water.

A few important comments to add; if the stone is not Novaculite within its structure, it may not survive without cracking after being submerged in boiling water. That being the case, it would be better to lower the temp of water. Also, make sure that the bottom of the stone be raised slightly above the bottom of the container to allow the water bath to better penetrate all sides of the stone. A couple of short brass or stainless steel rods would do the trick. Rinse the stone in fresh clean water and dry at the end of the cleansing process.

The following photos shows the stones colour change after completing the oil cleansing process.

After the 1st bath;


After the 3rd and final bath;


Stewie;

 

[adrspach]

Some people use for this slow cooker. However beware to cook it in well ventilated place or outside as the fumes in higher temperatures are not that healthy.

As with the slurry there is something what we did not agree on with Henk.
In my opinion there are 2 ways of abrasion one is with slurry when the particles roll and chip away the steel and without slury when the surface of the stone looks like full of needles/cutting facetes like a file which scrathes away steel once those needles/facetes are burnished/flatened/blunt they slow down but give higher polish. However there are also hones which binder of which is able to release damaged surface crystals and have fresh needles ready for cutting.

 

[essexalan]

Only cleaned up man made oilstones by boiling with a bio active detergent, problem there is that it also removes the pre-treatment that Norton use so the stone becomes very porous. Never seen nor had the need to do this to a Washita just dressing the stone improves it's cutting ability unless you use too fine a lapping grit.

As I understand it slurry consists of binder plus abrasive particles and metal particles removed/released by the abrasive action, Washita and Ark stones are almost solid abrasive tightly bound together plus they are not very porous. They do not like releasing particles. You can let the slurry dry out a bit which has the effect of clogging the stone to a degree which seems to give a finer finish I have only done this using water as a lube and seems to be the opposite of what the razor boys find.

 

[bugbear]

Only cleaned up man made oilstones by boiling with a bio active detergent, problem there is that it also removes the pre-treatment that Norton use so the stone becomes very porous. Never seen nor had the need to do this to a Washita just dressing the stone improves it's cutting ability unless you use too fine a lapping grit.

As I understand it slurry consists of binder plus abrasive particles and metal particles removed/released by the abrasive action, Washita and Ark stones are almost solid abrasive tightly bound together plus they are not very porous. They do not like releasing particles. You can let the slurry dry out a bit which has the effect of clogging the stone to a degree which seems to give a finer finish I have only done this using water as a lube and seems to be the opposite of what the razor boys find.

Given the longevity and/or resistance to wear of a true arkansas, the rate of particle release is extraordinarily low.

In the sense that my waterstones (or even Silk Stone) does make a slurry, my arkansas and washita don't.

BugBear

 

[swagman]

Only cleaned up man made oilstones by boiling with a bio active detergent, problem there is that it also removes the pre-treatment that Norton use so the stone becomes very porous.

Why would you do that. !!!!

 

[bugbear]

Only cleaned up man made oilstones by boiling with a bio active detergent, problem there is that it also removes the pre-treatment that Norton use so the stone becomes very porous.

Why would you do that. !!!!

Sometimes a stone is found completely glazed over with an evil combination of hardened/polymerised oil. and/or swarf and dirt.

This glaze render the stone u/s.

BugBear

 

[swagman]

Only cleaned up man made oilstones by boiling with a bio active detergent, problem there is that it also removes the pre-treatment that Norton use so the stone becomes very porous.

Why would you do that. !!!!

Sometimes a stone is found completely glazed over with an evil combination of hardened/polymerised oil. and/or swarf and dirt.

This glaze render the stone u/s.

BugBear

So the answer is to remove the manufacturers oil preload by soaking it in bio detergent. Interesting.