Rutlands tools

[Braddersmd]

As far as possible I have entirely ceased buying things from China. It is a Communist state, adopts slave labour, oppresses minorities and has an abysmal human rights record.

May I ask how far is "as far as possible"? I noted you've mentioned not typing on a Chinese computer. Tablets? Phones? Watches, even theoretical Swiss ones? TV's and radios? Power tools, given where we are posting? How about security? House alarms, CCTV products? Heating and lighting?

I'm not asking you in a belligerent way, but with genuine intrigue. How far can you actually go, and still live a modern life - not go Tom and Barbara? I spent the bulk of my working career importing and exporting product manufactured in the Far East - the bulk of the latter years from China. So definitely from the other side of this particular debate. I spent many many years travelling to China, and have a great many friends still there. My experiences were that whilst wages were lower than here, they were raising year on year. I saw very little that could be described as communist. In fact, I'd go as far as saying that money and status are the two main drivers throughout.

 

[AJB Temple]

I am not going to get into a lengthy thread on this as I come here for woodwork (much less than I used to) not politics, so this response will be my last word on the subject.

I agree the high street has been destroyed by on-line shopping. Along with silly parking policies and excessive business rates. I was glad to get rid of the commercial lease I had in Moorgate, London.
The High street and many office blocks will revert to housing once government policy catches up with reality. This will help a regeneration of small shops but there is no going back.
The quality of jobs in this country arising from Amazon is at the basic living wage level. Anyone who thinks that is a path to prosperity is deluded. On-line delivery drivers are under huge pressure to maximise drops and it is not what I would call quality of life.
My personal choice to avoid goods from China is less than a year old. Prior to that I consumed in a way that I do not do now. Even then, I mainly bought German or British where possible. (I should add that as my first wife was Dutch and my children are half Dutch, I have dual nationality and my wife is German, I am not wedded to British isolationism).
I have not bought any IT equipment, phones or cameras in the past year and have no intention of doing so for the foreseeable future.
I do not buy imported food. We have a large kitchen garden and grow all vegetables that we need. All meat and fish comes from the UK. Mostly local in that I know exactly the farms it comes from and fish I buy from a proper fishmonger who is buying UK landed fish). I make all of our bread and it is UK grown and milled wheat.
I only buy UK made clothes and shoes (but few as I have far more than I will ever need).
I have not bought any machinery in the past two years, but I plan to do so. When I do it will be reconditioned Wadkin / Sedgewick.
I do not buy Chinese made power tools (though I expect I have in the past - through ignorance). Most of what I do buy is purchased in Germany (where we live part of the time) and is German or Austrian. I doubt there are many Chinese bits in them but if there then I accept that I could not avoid it.
My other main hobby is playing music, and I know for sure that my piano was made in Germany. I was there.
Furniture etc I largely make myself. Kitchen appliances are all German manufactured.

I shall see how it goes, but the reality is that as a wood hobbyist / house developer / renovator now, I am very well equipped and can probably continue without buying much until I die.

My aim is to simplify my life, simplify my business interests, and not add to things which I find morally reprehensible.

Kind regards,

Adrian

 

[billw]

My experiences were that whilst wages were lower than here, they were raising year on year.

I often see the "but they pay them next to nothing" argument only for people to then state they love going abroad because they can get a beer for 50p. Yes you can.....because 50p to the local population is probably the same as you paying £3. My other half lives in Indonesia and she can go and lavishly party on a night out for £20 - try that in London and see where it gets you.

 

[billw]

<lots of stuff edited>

With all due respect Adrian it appears your lifestyle is not one that borders on the poverty line and you are probably more able to make those choices than most. Not a criticism of you or quite frankly anything else, just an observation.

 

[Raymien]

Well, this has escalated.

Starting to regret posting links to cheap tools now...

 

[Braddersmd]

I am not going to get into a lengthy thread on this as I come here for woodwork (much less than I used to) not politics, so this response will be my last word on the subject.

I agree the high street has been destroyed by on-line shopping. Along with silly parking policies and excessive business rates. I was glad to get rid of the commercial lease I had in Moorgate, London.
The High street and many office blocks will revert to housing once government policy catches up with reality. This will help a regeneration of small shops but there is no going back.
The quality of jobs in this country arising from Amazon is at the basic living wage level. Anyone who thinks that is a path to prosperity is deluded. On-line delivery drivers are under huge pressure to maximise drops and it is not what I would call quality of life.
My personal choice to avoid goods from China is less than a year old. Prior to that I consumed in a way that I do not do now. Even then, I mainly bought German or British where possible. (I should add that as my first wife was Dutch and my children are half Dutch, I have dual nationality and my wife is German, I am not wedded to British isolationism).
I have not bought any IT equipment, phones or cameras in the past year and have no intention of doing so for the foreseeable future.
I do not buy imported food. We have a large kitchen garden and grow all vegetables that we need. All meat and fish comes from the UK. Mostly local in that I know exactly the farms it comes from and fish I buy from a proper fishmonger who is buying UK landed fish). I make all of our bread and it is UK grown and milled wheat.
I only buy UK made clothes and shoes (but few as I have far more than I will ever need).
I have not bought any machinery in the past two years, but I plan to do so. When I do it will be reconditioned Wadkin / Sedgewick.
I do not buy Chinese made power tools (though I expect I have in the past - through ignorance). Most of what I do buy is purchased in Germany (where we live part of the time) and is German or Austrian. I doubt there are many Chinese bits in them but if there then I accept that I could not avoid it.
My other main hobby is playing music, and I know for sure that my piano was made in Germany. I was there.
Furniture etc I largely make myself. Kitchen appliances are all German manufactured.

I shall see how it goes, but the reality is that as a wood hobbyist / house developer / renovator now, I am very well equipped and can probably continue without buying much until I die.

My aim is to simplify my life, simplify my business interests, and not add to things which I find morally reprehensible.

Kind regards,

Adrian

Thanks for your well thought out reply. My post was not based in politics either. Certainly an admirable stance you're taking, and I wish you the best of luck. I mentioned Tom and Barbara rather tongue in cheek, it wasn't meant to be offensive, but it does appear you are self sufficient. I would however point out that almost all items with electronics that you buy from now on will have Chinese made components in them. Even the German kitchen appliances, let alone the cable used with everything - I was importing 4 containers full a month by the time I sold up.

In the early days of my visits there, I was taken to a factory three days on the bounce by different suppliers representing different industrial sectors. Each day a different sign above the door, and different products on display., Raised more than a smirk from the staff there by the end of the last trip. A definite eye opener to what was being made there, and the brands I saw whilst there over the years.

 

[Braddersmd]

Well, this has escalated.

Starting to regret posting links to cheap tools now...

Hahahaha. Don't - it was a useful heads up - lead to me finding something I'd been looking for!

 

[Mooose]

The other 3 corner clamps I ordered on 19 Dec arrived this morning - from China - I can now finish the frames for the display cases I'm making

And - I noticed Rutlands had these Buy MFT Clamps from Rutlands Limited - Rutlands at £50 a pair (Amazon has them £100!!!) - I bought a pair on @petermillard suggestion for £28 incl shipping from Banggood (that was the first order I placed with them and was dubious . . no problems with about 8 orders now)

Thank you for the above - I ordered 2 sets from Banggood and they arrived in just over a week. Nice quality:

 

[Raymien]

My quick clamps arrived today and whilst I don’t have any others to compare them too, these seem of good quality. The handle and the ‘ratchet’ (inc the black part) are all metal construction, seemingly strong and robust. For £15 each delivered, I’m pleased.

 

[billw]

Thank you for the above - I ordered 2 sets from Banggood and they arrived in just over a week. Nice quality:

View attachment 100458
View attachment 100459

Mine arrived too. I won't post the pics because they're the same.

 

[TheTiddles]

Well apart from the first one (they're socialist, not communist - the party name is a bit outdated) I agree those things happen. The last one though, they just don't really care. "Rights" of their citizens are to live safely and with economic prosperity. We in the West want different rights, freedom, etc etc. I've been to a few major Chinese cities and whilst I found the police presence a bit overwhelming, on the other hand I wasn't going to be mugged or stabbed.

People are very quick to judge Chinese society by our standards - why are human rights more important than economic and social rights? Because we say so. Are we definitely right? No.

Well we are totally off topic now, but maybe consider the irony of expressing your opinion about the rights and wrongs of protecting the rights of others being able to express an opinion when in some places they can’t. It might amuse you as much as it amuses me

By the way, you have no right to express an opinion about what I’ve said above... see how you like it

Aidan

 

[TheTiddles]

My quick clamps arrived today and whilst I don’t have any others to compare them too, these seem of good quality. The handle and the ‘ratchet’ (inc the black part) are all metal construction, seemingly strong and robust. For £15 each delivered, I’m pleased.

View attachment 100464
View attachment 100465
View attachment 100466

It might sound terrible but have you tried running a file over a tooth of that ratchet surface? I’d be interested to know how hard that bit is, that’s the bit that’ll take the most wear and making that hard is the enemy of the rest of the process to make that part, so it’s a real trade off and the “hard” part of engineering design

I still find it impressive they can even deliver an empty box for that price

Aidan

 

[Peter Sefton]

An interesting customer review just recieved.

 

[Nelsun]

An interesting customer review just recieved.

Or how about no contrasting markings at all? I've bought a couple of small small square things via Banggood with only "engraved" markings... which are damned near impossible to read. Life's too short to spend it squinting While I do feel some of the Woodpecker gear is a solution looking for a problem; their common tools are worth crying for just-the-once.

 

[johnnyb]

slave labour is very alive and well in the UK... most car washes employ below minimum wage workers. many small businesses are supported by the state(benefit cheats or legit disabilities) ebay pay tax in Luxembourg amazon in Ireland. Chinese goods can be as good or better than US goods.of course what us goods have is an understanding of the way that market ticks. Chinese manufacturing is in a different league than manufacturing in the west.(nowadays) it won't be long before Chinese goods will be expensive(ala taiwan)

 

[Raymien]

An interesting customer review just recieved.

I completely agree with that review, and I love my woodpeckers square and woodpeckers woodworking rule with hook end. Awesome bits of kit that I cherish.
But sadly I cannot justify buying all my tools from them, and so I supplement with the occasional Banggood version. The ones I have aren’t that far behind, but much much cheaper, so I’m enjoying the best of both worlds.

 

[NiallD]

What is the general consensus on the quality of Rutlands tools? I think I read a comment on here somewhere saying they were effectively rebranded Chinese tools, and not all that great?

They seem well priced, but not crazy cheap?

I have bought a couple of things from Rutland but my last experience- several years ago was not good, so nothing since. A router set for making up window sash bars was a waste of money - you couldn't actually produce sash bars which fitted together without further routing cuts , which made the whole process really frustrating. Their helpline was not good- it was obvious the person I spoke to had no idea re wood machining. I ended up buying from Whiteside, worked perfectly.