Running up 12m of wooden moulding

[innesm]

Hi, (first post)
[Introductory aside unrelated to subject of post: Im looking to get into woodworking having moved to a place with a garage (garages - apparently they used to be for storing cars. Weird idea).]

I'm posting this in the off-topic forum since it's my first post and Im wary of posting it elsewhere

I've been looking for some wooden moulding to restore an old 6 panel front door where the original moulding has been stripped off. I eventually resigned myself to not finding any off-the-shelf replacement. So I drew up the profile by copying from a neighbours door and got a quote from a joinery firm for running up an suitable length (12m ish). The quote was £315, which I wasn't expecting! You can get a reclaimed 6 panel door for that kind of money.

The moulding is a bolection moulding and about 1" by 2.5".

Here's a picture:

h ttp: // i130. photobucket DOT com/albums/ p256/mru4/Picture108 DOT jpg

So, just out of interest, how many people on the forum think they'd be able to make this kind of thing in their workshop? From my limited knowledge, I imagine a heavy duty spindle moulder is what's needed. It would be interesting to hear how it would be done. Would one big custom cutter be ground to match the profile? Multiple passes with 'standard' cutters? Showing my ignorance no doubt!

I'm waiting for a second quote from somebody else, but I wouldn't be ultimately surprised if that's the going rate for this kind of thing - it may be a labour intensive job.

 

[Adam]

Hi, (first post)
Im looking to get into woodworking having moved to a place with a garage (garages - apparently they used to be for storing cars. Weird idea).

I'm posting this in the off-topic forum since it's my first post and Im wary of posting it elsewhere

I've been looking for some wooden moulding to restore an old 6 panel front door where the original moulding has been stripped off. I eventually resigned myself to not finding any off-the-shelf replacement. So I drew up the profile by copying from a neighbours door and got a quote from a joinery firm for running up an suitable length (12m ish). The quote was £315, which I wasn't expecting! You can get a reclaimed 6 panel door for that kind of money.

The moulding is a bolection moulding and about 1" by 2.5".

Here's a picture:

h ttp: // i130. photobucket DOT com/albums/ p256/mru4/Picture108 DOT jpg

So, just out of interest, how many people on the forum think they'd be able to make this kind of thing in their workshop? From my limited knowledge, I imagine a heavy duty spindle moulder is what's needed. It would be interesting to hear how it would be done. Would one big custom cutter be ground to match the profile? Multiple passes with 'standard' cutters? Showing my ignorance no doubt!

I'm waiting for a second quote from somebody else, but I wouldn't be ultimately surprised if that's the going rate for this kind of thing - it may be a labour intensive job.

Seems a worthy topic for General Woodworking to me.

Also, welcome.

PS, the spam filter will have caught your newly posted URLs, so they should be visible in my post. The spam filter wears off after your first post or two.

Adam

 

[innesm]

Also, welcome.

PS, the spam filter will have caught your newly posted URLs, so they should be visible in my post. The spam filter wears off after your first post or two.

Adam

Ah. I was wondering how to get the picture to display! Thanks for that, Adam.

 

[Philly]

Hi I
Welcome to the forum!
Your moulding-it could be made up from a few simple mouldings instead of being one solid piece. It looks like a cove, bead and roundover built up to look like one larger moulding. You should be able to buy these seperate mouldings off the shelf-I know my local B+Q sells them.
Hope this makes sense,
Philly

 

[Anonymous]

You must enter a message when posting.

 

[innesm]

if you asked for 100M instead of 12 it would be much cheaper per metre.
So £315 is probably OK.
cheers
Jacob

Yes, would that I had more than one front door!. I could maybe get lots made and fit panelled wainscoting in one of my rooms...

 

[innesm]

Hi I
Welcome to the forum!
Your moulding-it could be made up from a few simple mouldings instead of being one solid piece.

Thanks Philly. I think that technique would be unsuitable for an exterior application - at least that's what the joiner said when I mentioned building up from more than one moulding. I can see it might increase the problem of water getting in to the joints and causing problems.

 

[Nick W]

Oh dear, now I'm going to sound like Jason.

It would be a piece of p*ss on a Legacy. Ha! And you though it only did turny stuff. Oh no siree!

Not that I'm implying that Jason's language would be anything like as bad of course.

 

[innesm]

Another thought: if a suitable moulding could be found (1" thick or a bit thicker and 2.5" wide or a bit wider), but no rebate and with a 'square' outside edge), then it would perhaps be possible to modify the moulding using less heavy duty tools: a table saw for cutting the rebate, and a router table for routing the small ogee profile on the outside edge of the moulding. You wouldnt get an exact match but something aesthetically acceptable.

This is what I mean (stock moulding details omitted!):

 

[Neil]

this might be helpful

Cheers,
Neil

 

[ike]

I reckon i could do that easily on the router table if it was in three sections - lower rectangular section with coved edge, upper section with roundover bit and ogee bit-turned over and rebated. Glued together then the small half-round pinned on after. Glued with waterproof glue-no problem- I've done glazed frames and cills from glued-up sections and it's as good as if machined from a single section.

cheers,

Ike

 

[Roger]

I'm with Philly on this one. It looks very much as if it was originally made up of multiple profiles. The joint line certainly doesn't look like it goes straight through. Several parts are out of line. It may be the photograph possibly - but I certainly wouldn't bet on it being a solid piece - unless you know something we don't

 

[innesm]

I'm with Philly on this one. It looks very much as if it was originally made up of multiple profiles. <snip>... I certainly wouldn't bet on it being a solid piece - unless you know something we don't

Only way I could find out is prising bits of neighbours doors, so it will remain a mystery . However I'd be surprised if they constructed doors by applying multiple small sections of moulding, given that in those days I imagine miles of mouldings were being churned out by hundreds of mills.

There's lots of moulding inside the house as well - again I cant see it being likely that it was put together from components. Also - glue maybe not so waterproof in them days so such construction probably wouldnt have survived till now? All guessing on my part.

Looking at old catalogues of mouldings from Victorian times it's impressive just how wide a range was available 'off the shelf'.

Edit: I think the fact that the moulding is a bit 'battered' due to age might give the impression that it is made from multiple strips that arent perfectly lined up.

 

[jasonB]

Give this compant a call, they list over 20 different bolection mouldings, or will run a matching one to yours, just can't get their web site up at the moment.

Thames Moulding Co
16b Whytecliffe Rd South
Purley Surrey CR8 2AU
Tel: 020 8668 0332

Jason

 

[innesm]

Give this compant a call, they list over 20 different bolection mouldings, or will run a matching one to yours, just can't get their web site up at the moment.

It is accessible via the 'WayBackMachine' archive.

http://web.archive.org/web/200212080204 ... tions.html

Yes there might be something there that could be modified (I expect the exact depth of the rebate will be wrong but you never know...)

Interestingly enough I phoned them last month (another recommendation, that time on usenet) to get them to fax me their bolection moulding catalogue page but never heard back. I'll have another go, and see what they quote for a custom job.

Thanks, Jason.

 

[Scrit]

I, too, am with Jacob on this. The job needs to be worked from one piece in order to stay weathertight. Working using multiple passes is not only extremely time-consuming, but it is also very error prone, especially as a bolection moulding needs to be rebated once the face has been worked. Or obe slip after making the first 4 passes and you're back to square one

At one time this sort of moulding was frequently worked on thicknessers (also called panel planers) as opposed to spindle moulders. Prior to the 1930s thicknessers often had square blocks which could carry two full width planing cutters together with a set of moulding cutters - one of the reasons you will also see a series of drillings across the ends of the thicknessing machines, which were to allow the fitting of guide bars. When British practice moved over to circular blocks in the late 1920s it was still typical practice for both overhand planers and thicknessers to have 2 planer knives and facilities to hold a pair of 4 to 5 inch wide moulding cutters. This continued to be a British standard until the mid 1990s only petering out with the demise of Wilson, Robinson and Dominion machines - all of which offered the facility almost to the end. These days you'd run the jonb on a 4-sided moulder which most manufacturing joinery shops specialkising in volume doors/windows seem to have acquired.

As to prices? I'd probably be looking at £50 to £80 to have a set of cutters and limiters ground, then there's set-up and run time plus materials, wastage and margin. £350 seems a bit high to me, but for a non-standard bolection the price will be somewhat over the £150 mark simply because of the amount of labour involved.

Yes there might be something there that could be modified (I expect the exact depth of the rebate will be wrong but you never know...)

That doesn't matter as the rebate can always be reworked if needs be. Using a standard moulding from these guys will naturally be cheaper - if you have to have a special set of knives made then I'd ring around locally first

Scrit

 

[wrightclan]

As a few have said, it could be be built up with a few separate profiles. I've done it before. All of them could be bought or modified off the shelf. But it sounds like you have a router table or access to one. With a bit of thought, and careful measurements, you could make your own.

As Scrit said it's time consuming, but it is possible. As far as weather resistance, I would think with a waterproof glue, and proper sealing with the right finish, it should last many years.

Brad

 

[JFC]

It would be a piece of p*ss on a Legacy. Ha! And you though it only did turny stuff. Oh no siree!

Nope i would have said it just like that :lol: The nearest i can find is the triple classic plunge cutter but that would put a lambs tongue in place of the round over . The one cutter would do both sides of the mould .
I only have a list of about 20 cutters here so there may be one that fits better .

 

[innesm]

I, too, am with Jacob on this. The job needs to be worked from one piece in order to stay weathertight. Working using multiple passes is not only extremely time-consuming, but it is also very error prone, especially as a bolection moulding needs to be rebated once the face has been worked. Or one slip after making the first 4 passes and you're back to square one <snip>
Scrit

Interesting historical info, Scrit. This door would originally have been made in 1911. I dont know when The Unknown Muppet pulled off the mouldings though.

Maybe the folk who quoted £315 don't have the more labour-saving type of machinery - or maybe they have plenty of work and have quoted accordingly. When I showed him the profile he seemed to portion it into a number of sections, muttering about multiple passes.

Speaking of local companies, I dont suppose anyone would know a suitable firm in the Edinburgh/Lothians area? Otherwise I'll just keep faxing joinery firms from Yell.com.

Here's the profile I drew up. Note 'interesting' mingling of metric and imperial! Looking again at the photo, I think maybe there's a short horizontal section between the largest radius and the half-round.

 

[kevinr]

The last time I was looking for something slightly odd in a molding one of the local woodyards (Enfield Timber) said they could cut some if necessary on their CNC system.

I have not seen it in use but they (and presumably many other yards) have CNC machines that can be set to cut stuff after giving them the profile. As its not labour intensive you might get a rather better price! Perhaps try calling some timber yards in your area to see if anyone has the CNC gear to do it.