Making custom spindle moulder cutters

[ColeyS1]

Grinding my own cutters has been something I’ve considered doing. This thread has been really interesting and I’m impressed with the skills to grind cutters that some have. I find that most of the stuff I make can be produced with standard cutters, with only the odd one having to be custom made which I’ve always had done.

I think that an Armadillo Block would enable ‘home’ ground cutters to be used safely and meet the H&S requirements for maximum projection of the cutter to within 3mm without the need for limiters. I’d appreciate the views of those in the know.

Armadillo blocks have their place and allow deep moulds not possible with normal euro block type setups. It's quite a large investment though. The number of discs is also something to consider. I must have easily over a hundred now and more often than not need a few extra discs for new cutters. If the discs average let's say £5 each that's quite a lot towards limiters. Out of interest I really rushed setting up an armadillo block the other day. It still took 10-15 minutes of what seems like faffing around........ just checked and I have 105 discs so far.

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[deema]

Thanks Coley,
That’s great to know. I’d seen the following
https://www.armadillotools.co.uk/produc ... block-set/

And naively thought a 57mm Block set (£289 +Vat) would have enough rings for most things. I thought that 3 / 4 sets of custom cutters / limiters would have offset the cost!

 

[ColeyS1]

The other thing that slightly concerns me is you can only buy blanks direct from them. If for some reason they chose to increase the price you'd be extremely limited where you could buy them. (I don't think there is any where else. I'm gonna use them for deep moulds now that wouldn't fit standard blocks. If I need cutters making to match profiles I'll probably just get them to grind euro cutters and do without the limiters. I'm self employed and always use powerfeed so am not that worried about having the limiters. The cutters are pinned in so there should be no risk of them flying out.

I think their patent expires soon- perhaps someone else will come up with something similar/cheaper ?


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[Jacob]

I don't know if there are any accident figures but I suspect that the danger of flying cutters with modern safety or older un pinned Whitehill safety blocks is low. I had it happen once when a previous user had left it un-tightened as he was called away when changing cutters. It shattered and part of it was left deep gouged into the workpiece. Never again!
But I think it was the large 4 sided cutter, no longer used, which gave the spindle such a bad reputation.
I find a TS much more potentially hazardous.
Re costs - my collection of cutters above probably cost about £300 in total and can produce 1000s of profiles. A bit overkill really as I will never use most of the big batch I bought second hand but thought it was a bargain.

 

[Jacob]

Just had a look at the Armadillo block https://www.armadillotools.co.uk/produc ... block-set/
I couldn't see the point, still cant'! It seems that instead of having one limiter per blade you have to buy dozens of the buggers.
Have I missed something?

 

[Trevanion]

Just had a look at the Armadillo block https://www.armadillotools.co.uk/produc ... block-set/
I couldn't see the point, still cant'! It seems that instead of having one limiter per blade you have to buy dozens of the pippers.
Have I missed something?

Apparently, they're pretty good when you're doing mouldings where you're removing quite a lot of deep material and you need a bit of mass behind the cutters to give support.

 

[Jacob]

Just had a look at the Armadillo block https://www.armadillotools.co.uk/produc ... block-set/
I couldn't see the point, still cant'! It seems that instead of having one limiter per blade you have to buy dozens of the pippers.
Have I missed something?

Apparently, they're pretty good when you're doing mouldings where you're removing quite a lot of deep material and you need a bit of mass behind the cutters to give support.

O K a bit like a shaped whole block instead of just shaped cutters.
There are other ways with big profiles - the classic being to remove as much as you can with rebate block passes first.
Or tilt the workpiece and cutter to minimise distances from the axis of the spindle - elaborate looking covings may actually be machined in one piece, one pass, onto say a 6x1" board, tilted. Through machine on edge vertical, tilted to 45º when fitted.

 

[Trevanion]

Been working on some "Bodgers Delight" cutters today and I'd thought I'd share the process here

I've got a massive job coming up with many Boxed Sashes where there will be 60+ horns (or joggles if you're that way inclined) to cut. Now, usually these would be cut on the bandsaw close to the line and then sanded on the bobbin sander to match existing, but doing that many horns that way sounds very time-consuming. So I bought a pair of 50mm blank Euro knives from Wealden for about £10 and went at it.

It started with the really rough shape of the horn shape in question on a piece of hardwood, the full length of the horn is 60mm so a 50mm knife won't do it all in one pass and 60mm knives aren't available so I'll just have to make do. (Whitehill do 55mm blanks but they're twice the price of 50mm)

The block is then split with a 25 degree cut which will give you the template with the cutting angle included, so there's no guesswork or offering up to the workpiece constantly, just grind to the line.

25 degree piece laid sawn face down onto the cutter to give the correct profile and is then marked with a scribe onto black sharpie.

Most of the waste is cut away with an angle grinder.

Cutter is then ground at 90 degrees to the line with a 12mm wheel with a radius.

The second knife is then marked off the first knife to get them perfectly matching, you could use a couple of 6mm drill bits to align them but I just eyeballed it.

The bevel is then ground onto the knives just until the 90-degree portion disappears and the knife becomes sharp, the bevel I copied off an existing knife.

Cutters are fitted to a Euro Block (I will be using a heavier, larger steel one for the actual cutting for more support behind the knife) with blank limiters and a test cut is made with a scrap screwed to an end of a board.

Perfect match . £10 of cutter knives and 1 hour of time which I kept an eye on, I probably would've spent more time drawing it up to send it to Whitehill (Of which I would then have to wait for correspondence and the knives in the post) than actually grinding it myself. As I said it isn't the exact length I would like but it's near enough that I can bandsaw the rest of it off a fence and sand it.

Just have to come up with a jig now to hold the sash stiles securely to go through the moulder... :-k In an ideal world I should own a Wadkin ECA tenoner with a head just for the job.

 

[Jacob]

Yes that's the way to do it! Making the cutters that is. Personally I would have done those horns with band saw and a bit of sanding.

 

[Trevanion]

Yes that's the way to do it! Making the cutters that is. Personally I would have done those horns with band saw and a bit of sanding.

Well...

I've got a massive job coming up with many Boxed Sashes where there will be 60+ horns (or joggles if you're that way inclined) to cut. Now, usually these would be cut on the bandsaw close to the line and then sanded on the bobbin sander to match existing, but doing that many horns that way sounds very time-consuming.

The number is closer to 80 horns really as a few of the boxes are triple width boxes with the middle being the opener and the cords running over the two outside casings. Bandsaw and sanding works for about 2 or 3 boxes as it’s fairly quick but when you’re talking more than that it’s worth seeking out better solutions that result in a better, faster, more repeatable and crisper outcome with all the dust going up the dust extractor rather than spewing everywhere on the bandsaw and sanders.

Each to their own :roll:

 

[Jacob]

Well yes if there's enough work to make it worth it!
Come to think - I didn't do that many horns when I was at it, it was nearly all Georgian multi paned which hardly ever had them.

 

[Jonathan S]

Trevanion..... Ive used whitehill, but if you want fast and economic have a look at this guy http://www.cutterprofilers.co.uk/

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[Jacob]

I think once you've twigged how easy and cheap it is to DIY then you will never buy another off the peg.

 

[Trevanion]

Trevanion..... Ive used whitehill, but if you want fast and economic have a look at this guy http://www.cutterprofilers.co.uk/

That's actually pretty competitive compared to Whitehill, with that guy you could have the knives and limiters for less than what Whitehill would want for just the knives. But there's still the having to draw it up/send out a sample and the back and forth correspondence involved compared to a £10 pair of blanks and an hour of my time .

 

[Jonathan S]

With cutter profilers I just sent them a sample..... soon as they get it it's made and in the post, generally in 24hrs.
They've made me some of my big 80 and 100mm cutters for cornice (double underpants when using them).

Yep I've played email ping pong with whitehill.....there a bigger company, I believe cutter profilers is a one man band....he just gets it done.

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[Trevanion]

So, for anyone interested at all...

I got around to using my new "bodgers delight" cutters


68 Sash Stiles ready for moulding the horns.

A very real bodgers delight method of holding the sashes! :lol: Worked very well actually! It could hold up to 6 at a time, no vibration, slop or anything like that going through the cutters. Of course, in future, it will be nice to have a jig that's got better ways to hold it and perhaps looks a bit sturdier.

from the inside, Xs marked on the sides of the sashes that need the horn on so that they go together the right way around.

68 stiles moulded in less than 30 minutes without being out of breath, no joke.

The surface finish leaves a little to be desired for, on account of using chip-board in the jig which seemed to have steel strands in the mixture which I could see sparking as I plunged it through it. Next time I will use softwood ends instead and touch up the cutters. It's still a very good cut surface across the grain on Accoya though, very little hand sanding and it's up to very good standard. The end-grain feels like glass, it's buttery smooth.

In all, probably saved at least a day and a half of cutting horns on the bandsaw, sanding them all and making them good. In the time it took to cut four horns perfectly on the moulder I would've only sawn one horn to rough shape, and I probably would've burned up a bandsaw blade too cutting all 68. It was worth doing, they're all consistent and perfect now.

 

[RogerS]

Very elegant, Sir =D>

But where's your Shaw guard ? :wink:

Seriously, I like the 'mass production' setup and gets over the difficulty of moulding vertical pieces as they become a well-supported solid 'block'..

What do you use to mould single vertical pieces ?

 

[Trevanion]

Very elegant, Sir =D>

But where's your Shaw guard ? :wink:

It’s there on the machine! It’s just hiding behind the jig! :lol:

What do you use to mould single vertical pieces ?

You could use the same jig to mould a single piece since the plywood runs against the fence rather than the workpieces against the fence themselves so they can't be sucked into the cutterblock.