Ripping by Hand - I'm f'in knackered!!!!!!

[Richard T]

BB wrote: I suspect it's a cross cut that someone converted (refiled)

S'right - me. With a full size, knife edge file to boot.

It's lovely to have a bandsaw now.
Though I do have a full set of less stupid rip saws - two coarsenesses of bench, a tennon and a dovetail. All old and re cut. Takes a bit of practice but it's easy enough.

 

[kinsella]

Bugbear, that looks the business. i am never ever doing it again with the wrong equipment! I had no choise this time. Car boot sales here i come.

 

[Cheshirechappie]

Funny. I have a Lynx rip saw and have attempted resawing with it many a time. It busts my gut. Last time I got so tired and frustrated I decided to use my Bahco 7 tpi cross cut saw and it went through the wood like a hot knife through butter. Light and day. I'd throw my Lynx in the bin if it hadn't have cost me £80 (I'll use it as a resharpening exercise). But even better is a Japanese rip saw. One of the double sided ones (rip and cross cut) are quite cheap and very useful.

About two decades ago, I bought a R&L Dorchester 26" rip. Couldn't get it to work at all - it kept jamming in the cut - snagging on a tooth, not tight in width. I set it aside and used a hardpoint for years.

About 18 months ago, I had another go with it. Same problem. Having accumulated a little more knowledge in two decades, I decided that a) the rake was too aggressive, and b) the kerf was too wide. They tell you never to bend sawteeth back after setting them, so for some weeks I mulled rather than acted. In the end, I reasoned that the saw was no use as is, so I might as well break a few teeth as leave it in a cupboard, and squeezed the set off it in an engineer's vice. There was just about enough spring in the metal to open the set back to give a kerf about 1 1/2 times the blade thickness. I also filed a 10 degree (ish - didn't measure, just estimated) rake on the front of the teeth.

Night and day! It cuts like a dream, now.

The other tip I picked up somewhere is about sawing technique. On long sawing jobs, relax your grip on the handle as much as possible, and slow down your pace of sawing. It helps with accuracy, for one thing, and it means you can keep working for far longer without your arm feeling like it's about to drop off or sieze up. Long sawing jobs are still hard work, but at least they're a bit less painful.

 

[Cheshirechappie]

I too have a Lynx rip saw. As supplied it has a very minimal amount of set on it, and though it cuts nicely and tracks well in a well behaved timber, it is easy for the blade to get pinched, especially if the wood isn't all that dry. My cheapie Irwin hardpoint saw does indeed go through green wood easier. I think I will try re-setting the Lynx sometime.

Advice seen somewhere - for dry wood, set to give a kerf about 1 1/2 times blade thickness (that's thickness at the toothline, not the back if it's a taper-ground blade!), and for green wood, increase the set to give a kerf about twice blade thickness. I think that's one reason why many greenwood saws have a 'raker' tooth - the set is enough to leave an uncut sliver between the left-set and right-set teeth, so the unset raker takes it out.

 

[Fishandchips]

Tie a brick or something heavy to the end of the saw and let it do the work. Just a thought. My father used to say "let the saw do the work".

 

[Paul Chapman]

squeezed the set off it in an engineer's vice.

If you've not seen it before, you might be interested to see this video of Mike Wenzloff using a vice to adjust the set of a saw. By varying the thickness of paper used, you could vary the amount of set http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lKUsWFYbwA

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[bugbear]

The other tip I picked up somewhere is about sawing technique. On long sawing jobs, relax your grip on the handle as much as possible...

Yes - I have a terrible tendency to grip like a demon when trying to work hard. It's wrong, of course.

BugBear

 

[Jacob]

squeezed the set off it in an engineer's vice.

If you've not seen it before, you might be interested to see this video of Mike Wenzloff using a vice to adjust the set of a saw. By varying the thickness of paper used, you could vary the amount of set http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lKUsWFYbwA

Cheers :wink:

Paul

Paul Sellers does it by working along with a hammer. If you are fairly gentle there is enough spring in the teeth to keep them up.
NB it works and is very quick - less precise but precise enough if you don't overdo it.

 

[Paul Chapman]

less precise but precise enough

How precise is that then :? In my experience, if you want your saw to cut straight you need the set to be the same both sides.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Jacob]

less precise but precise enough

How precise is that then :? In my experience, if you want your saw to cut straight you need the set to be the same both sides.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

'Precise enough" means (obviously) precise enough to cut straight.
Don't try it Paul if you think you will get it wrong!

 

[Paul Chapman]

I think the vice method is particularly good (provided you have a suitable vice) as the amount of set is being referenced from the saw plate, which would tend to give a more even set to each tooth. Other methods (stoning and using a hammer) are, IMHO, considerably less precise as they rely more on judgement than a fixed reference point.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Jacob]

Relying more on judgement than a fixed reference point is what I like about it, and most other woodwork processes too, come to think.
That's what craft work is all about.

 

[gomeraman]

You might find a band saw with a deep throat and fence of long-term benefit if you have to do this often .... but on the other hand you won't get so fit if you do that. Just make sure the rip saw's teeth are kept really sharp and trimmed.

 

[Sheffield Tony]

Advice seen somewhere - for dry wood, set to give a kerf about 1 1/2 times blade thickness (that's thickness at the toothline, not the back if it's a taper-ground blade!), and for green wood, increase the set to give a kerf about twice blade thickness.

Following this, and Fromey's comments, I measured my Lynx saw. It is in very nearly new condition. The blade is taper ground, and measured 0.9 mm just behind the teeth. Across the teeth was about 1.2mm, widening to 1.3mm near to the handle. From new, it has always bound as the stroke neared the handle end of the saw, and I guess this is why.

I have just sharpened it with the large saw file from Thomas Flinn (which is excellent, BTW) and re-set it to 1.5 times the 0.9mm plate width. It seems to a casual finger to be much sharper than as supplied, but I have yet to try it in anger. Fingers crossed that CC is right ...

 

[kinsella]

Sorted!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[andersonec]

You might find it easier if you sit astride the board, over a couple of saw stools, and hold the saw vertically with both hands together.
There's a vid somewhere I'll see if I can find it.

In the late 70's, we rebuilt a couple of schools which had been hit by a hurricane in St Lucia, we got some crap jobs..... we had a few local carpenters and they used their saws by having the wood on two horses which were slightly above waist height, they stood at the end holding the saw with the teeth facing away and the tip down, the movement of the arm was from the elbow and not the shoulder the way we do it, they all did it like that, standard practice apparently, I tried but couldn't master the technique, must have been something in the vegetation.

Andy

 

[Eric The Viking]

You might find it easier if you sit astride the board, over a couple of saw stools, and hold the saw vertically with both hands together.
There's a vid somewhere I'll see if I can find it.

In the late 70's, we rebuilt a couple of schools which had been hit by a hurricane in St Lucia, we got some rubbish jobs..... we had a few local carpenters and they used their saws by having the wood on two horses which were slightly above waist height, they stood at the end holding the saw with the teeth facing away and the tip down, the movement of the arm was from the elbow and not the shoulder the way we do it, they all did it like that, standard practice apparently, I tried but couldn't master the technique, must have been something in the vegetation.

Andy

If I understand your description, I used to do something very similar with sheet materials years ago, before I bought a circular saw (couldn't afford one when we first married). I still have it, a cheap S+J, with the top end of the handle roughly cut off,, as the acute angle used to leave marks when it bottomed-out:

I think it works better, on thin sheet, especially, as gravity keeps the teeth light in the cut, and helps stop them digging in, and clears the sawdust better.

But I'm really glad I have the Makita SP6000k now!

E.

 

[andersonec]

Eric, you have it, the grip was around the top of the handle, not where it is normally held, I suppose that if you used one technique from the start, that is what you grow up doing and get very proficient at it (like chopsticks) anyway, it worked for them and they made it look effortless, and no power tools I'm afraid, even setting the teeth on a saw was done with a nail (point flattened) a hammer and a piece of wood.

Andy

 

[Eric The Viking]

It's no faster, well, not with me driving(!), but I think you get a cleaner cut, and you can see where you're going easily too. That saw, incidentally, is officially rip profile teeth, and a decent set, but I re-filed to be alternately angled as if cross-cut. I used to mainly cut ply, and I think it gave less tearout. It's due for a sharpen, and I may put it back this time to proper rip profile (shortage of round tuits at the mo').

E.