Record Power BS400 Bandsaw Review

[memzey]

I've got an old Startrite 352 and can't say that either of these problems are noticeable on it. I may be lucky but I think that generally speaking older English made kit is much better than the modern, far eastern equivalents.

 

[sploo]

I've got an old Startrite 352 and can't say that either of these problems are noticeable on it. I may be lucky but I think that generally speaking older English made kit is much better than the modern, far eastern equivalents.

Although I've not used a Startrite, I understand they are basically the next step up in terms of quality - more trade than home hobbyist.

 

[conrad]

Thanks Sploo, I understand what you say re the blade tension guide problem and accept this appears to apply to most bandsaws. I've tried with several blades now and getting what appears to me to be pretty much correct tension based on the advice on the DVD included with the saw seems fairly straight forward. I haven't tensioned too much and I'm getting straight cuts, so I think I must be nearly there.

I guess the fact that I am new to these machines and maybe had too high expectations based on reviews I have read and my experience with other manufacturers, I was disappointed with the quality of the product. Small niggles I know, but they don't insipre confidence and would have not become issues had RP simply responded to my queries in a timely manner.

Anyway, the main reason I bought this saw is because I want it for resawing and when I build a suitable jig next week I will run some logs through and fingers crossed it does what it says on the tin.

I copied my comments here to RP, if I get a reply (its only two days now), I'll post it.

 

[memzey]

If you're going to resaw with it make sure you use an appropriate blade (fewer teeth the better) and go very slowly - I mean really slow to let the teeth clear the sawdust that they have made. I think resawing is the most challenging thing most bandsaw users do with their machines. Using the right blade, having the machine setup well and taking it steady will always improve chances of success.

 

[sploo]

Thanks Sploo, I understand what you say re the blade tension guide problem and accept this appears to apply to most bandsaws. I've tried with several blades now and getting what appears to me to be pretty much correct tension based on the advice on the DVD included with the saw seems fairly straight forward. I haven't tensioned too much and I'm getting straight cuts, so I think I must be nearly there.

Matthias Wandel did some interesting tests related to blade tensioning, and came to the conclusion that you are actually pretty unlikely to overtension anything other than a really thin blade (you're more likely to damage the machine first). You don't tend to achieve anything near the theoretical tension levels you need, but as long as there's good beam strength (the blade doesn't buckle under load) then you'll be OK.

As memzey has noted - resawing is just about the hardest job for a bandsaw, and a good blade is crucial. You'll probably find most people here recommending Tuffsaws, and whilst I'm usually averse to following the crowd, I too can highly recommend them.

If I recall correctly, the Sabrecut is great for resawing green (unseasoned) wood, and the Fastcut works well for dried. Compared to a stock low tpi count Record blade the difference was stunning.

 

[conrad]

Thanks for the advice guys. On the basis of reviews here and elsewhere, I spoke to Ian at Tuffsaws and bought some of his blades. He recommended the 1/4" 10tpi SuperTuff carbon blade for detail work and the 1/2" M42 6/10tpi vari-tooth for general work. I've used both of these now and they are very good. He recommended the 3/4 3tpi M42 for the resawing. Fingers crossed it does the job as I have no shortage of trees down here and it would be great to be able to make some use of them.

 

[MikeJhn]

Hi Conrad

I too have my workshop in France and the abundance of seasoned oak has made the Bandsaw work overtime since I brought it down, the 3/4" 3tpi has done sterling work on resawing down to the smallest thickness of 1.5mm, but mostly about 100mm high, have not tried anything taller.

Mike

 

[conrad]

That's really good to hear Mike, I look forward to trying it out next week.

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

Just to add...based on the first page of this review...recall I was resawing wet, freshly cut Ash, directly off the log at 12" under the guides. It was literally missing the guides, fully extended by about 2mm!

With a brand new 3tpi Tuffsaws sabrecut blade, frankly anything from 3/8" upwards, it will cut. Your problem will be slowing the progress of the wood through the saw, it goes that quick! Try not to worry about all the details until you get your hands on a Tuffsaw blade with the appropriate tension. All the other stuff like setting up of the guides is close to academic once you have a decent blade, correctly tensioned. To be honest, with careful pushing, the blade will cut true with no guides in place at all if the blade is sharp enough. As for tracking, as long as it's anywhere near the middle of the upper tyre, it doesn't matter a jot. The only important issue is that its neither over one or other edge and it's not too far back/forward that the guides are past their travel.

By far an away the two most important issues are blade (quality/sharpness) and tension. With Ian's advice, you've got blade sorted and the rest is downhill. You just wont believe the difference a decent blade makes, it shocks most people when they realise they're on the brink of junking a perfectly good bandsaw and one blade can make all that much difference. But you'll see what I mean.

 

[MikeJhn]

With apologies to Dinah Washington "What a difference a Blade Makes" it can transform a medico Bandsaw into a brilliant piece of kit, I could not believe the difference in the ease of cut using a good quality blade, I have a selection of Tuffsaw blades and think they are the bee's knees, but I can't comment on other recommended blades as I have just stuck with the Tuffsaw ones, once you find a decent tool why change it.

Mike

In case some of you don't understand the Dinah Washington apology : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmBxVfQTuvI

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

And I'll add to that. The issue is NOT just a new blade. I also have experienced literally brand new, out the packet and into the saw and STILL they don't give a decent cut....other brands....quite a few....quite famous ones that I wont name. But Tuffsaw's....every time they're top quality. Whether it's the steel or the quality of the weld I have absolutely no idea, all I can vouch for is that Ian has cornered the market because not only are his blades the best by some distance, they're also actually less expensive than these other "famous" brands. When you add to that the fact he's happy to talk you through the choices in his range based on the type of work you're doing and that his advice is superb, it's actually impossible to make a mistake with his service. He really is off the chart, in all my born days, I've never known a business like it. Once a customer has tried his blades, they NEVER buy from a different source because the difference is that stark.

 

[sploo]

And I'll add to that. The issue is NOT just a new blade. I also have experienced literally brand new, out the packet and into the saw and STILL they don't give a decent cut....other brands....quite a few....quite famous ones that I wont name. But Tuffsaw's....every time they're top quality. Whether it's the steel or the quality of the weld I have absolutely no idea, all I can vouch for is that Ian has cornered the market because not only are his blades the best by some distance, they're also actually less expensive than these other "famous" brands. When you add to that the fact he's happy to talk you through the choices in his range based on the type of work you're doing and that his advice is superb, it's actually impossible to make a mistake with his service. He really is off the chart, in all my born days, I've never known a business like it. Once a customer has tried his blades, they NEVER buy from a different source because the difference is that stark.

You know - he really ought to start paying us commission

Being serious though - isn't it great that someone can actually deliver a really top notch product at a good price, with a good service, and have such a wealth of unsolicited positive feedback. I just wish I could find something similar for router bits and circular saw blades - but maybe they're a bit harder to make.

 

[memzey]

Wealden tools?

 

[MikeJhn]

+1 for router bits from Wealden tools.

Mike

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

For table saw blades, Steve Maskery speaks highly of the service given by Doug from Cutting Solutions. Not used him myself yet but he gets good press.

 

[conrad]

Thanks memzey will do. This guy explains it well https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fK9m5PadmiI.

Thanks Bob I will check with Ian re the tension for the M42 blade before I go ahead. Does wetness make a very big difference? Most of the stuff I'll be cutting first is oak which was felled last year.

I have had a reply from Record Power acknowledging that 11 days to reply to my original query is not acceptable and they offered to send me a couple of blades FOC as a gesture of good will. So, fair enough we got there in the end, although I have declined the blades as I have already stocked up on Tuffsaws and its unlikely I will use anything else.

The issues I had were small I know, but cumulatively they were worrying and feeling left swinging in the breeze was frustrating. I guess this and my naivete in the world of the band saw gave me raised concern. However, thanks to all you guys here, I have a better understanding of the machine and see the niggles I have had are not uncommon and can be dealt with/lived with.

Cheers

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

Thanks memzey will do. This guy explains it well https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fK9m5PadmiI.

Thanks Bob I will check with Ian re the tension for the M42 blade before I go ahead. Does wetness make a very big difference? Most of the stuff I'll be cutting first is oak which was felled last year.

I have had a reply from Record Power acknowledging that 11 days to reply to my original query is not acceptable and they offered to send me a couple of blades FOC as a gesture of good will. So, fair enough we got there in the end, although I have declined the blades as I have already stocked up on Tuffsaws and its unlikely I will use anything else.

The issues I had were small I know, but cumulatively they were worrying and feeling left swinging in the breeze was frustrating. I guess this and my naivete in the world of the band saw gave me raised concern. However, thanks to all you guys here, I have a better understanding of the machine and see the niggles I have had are not uncommon and can be dealt with/lived with.

Cheers

Hi Conrad, yes wetness does make a fair difference because the sawdust, being damp has a tendency to clog the kerf which in turn promotes drift away from the cutting line. Further, the sap tends to build up and coat the left hand side of the blade (as you look at it) which causes the tracking to go to pot with the blade typically coming forward away from the rear bearing. The solution is twofold:

A purpose made blade with very few teeth (3tpi) and a very wide set on the teeth (sabrecut in Ian's range). Don't even attempt to use more than 4tpi in green (wet) wood still in the log form because it will give a terrible cut. For log material, again talk to Ian about the sabrecut range. Personally, if I'm cutting substantial wet logs ie greater than 6" under the guides, I use a 3/4 or 1" sabrecut. The inch is an absolute animal and flies through 12" wet stock but it is taking the saw's tensioner spring to the max. The 3/4" is good enough for pretty much all resawing in wet material also, just doesn't cut quite as quick. For log sizes below 6-8" 3/8 or 1/2 are great as they will also cut tighter radii. I quite like the 5/8" as a compromise that will do many things but for general use in wet wood my goto blade is a 3tpi 1/2" sabrecut.

Hope that helps.

Incidentally, the deal with the build up of sap and debris on the side of the blade, I use a paint scraper which I've sharpened on the grinder and then with the saw running VERY carefully scrape the crud off being EXTREMELY careful not to touch the set of the teeth.

 

[sploo]

In addition to Bob's comments, I'd note that you may also need to periodically clean the tyres (as they clog too).

I've used the 5/8" version on my (much lower powered) BS300 and pretty much pushed it to max cutting height with freshly felled maple. It's very hard work, but it will do it (so the BS400 should be much better).

If you are cutting anything that's not flat (i.e. a log) do look into making a suitable sled. Even just a sheet of MDF (which the log is screwed to, and the sheet running against the bandsaw fence) will make the first cuts safer (until you have a flat edge). Don't try to push a round log through the saw; if it rotates you'll be a world of pain.

Finally; I've not seen details of why (I'm assuming it's related to cutting area) but I understand that if you double the thickness of what you're cutting, it's approximately 4 times harder for the saw (2^2). Material about 1.4x thicker is therefore "only" twice as hard (1.4^2). Point being - deep resawing and planking jobs are tough on a saw. Take it slow.

 

[conrad]

Thanks Bob and Sploo

the M42 3/4 3tpi works good and yes cutting green wood it did clog up fairly quickly leaving residue on the side of the blade. not a big issue, I removed the blade soaked it for a short time in washing up liquid, ran it through a pot scrubber, dried it and rubbed it with WD40. Good as new, but I prefer Bob's suggestion, simply scrape the blade clean.

The tyres did get a bit grotty and I used some white spirit and a rag to clean. seems to do the trick.

Sploo, understand, I will make a jig, but have to admit I have just been shaving a flat edge with an axe in my eagerness to start some re-sawing.

 

[sploo]

Sploo, understand, I will make a jig, but have to admit I have just been shaving a flat edge with an axe in my eagerness to start some re-sawing.

If it sits flat on the bandsaw table and doesn't rock then that'll probably be fine - it's just trying to push a round log that's risky (if the blade snatches the timber because the timber twists slightly, or the timber closes up on the blade then things get bad).