Record BS400 help

[conrad]

I wonder if anybody out there can help me.

I have just started to get a lot of vibration on the saw and it has now stopped breaking. The tyres and pulley's were quite bunged up so I have cleared them. I get less vibration now but its still running a bit rough and not breaking.

The saw is about seven years old. Its my first saw, I learnt on it, so probably not always treated as well as it should have been. Its done a lot of work and I use it to cut large pieces, mainly oak, beech, wild cherry, sweet chestnut and ash. I have milled pieces to its maximum 30cm capicity and I use it a lot to cut very large bowl blanks which are often 15cm to 20cm deep.

The only modification I have made was to replace the upper blade guides. The originals were very poor and Record were of no help.

I'm thinking I may be able to improve on the vibration issue by changing the tyres. The original ones still on it seem fine in that they are still in one piece, but perhaps after this amount of time and heavy use they should be changed. Anybody any thoughts on that?

The breaking issue is my real problem as I have now idea what could have caused it to fail other than an issue with the motor itself.

I would be grateful for any help or advice you guys could offer as I'm based in rural Brittany and will have to figure it out for myself.

Thanks

Conrad

 

[Spectric]

Hi there I have the BS400 and my vibration issues are because it has the wheel kit. The way I resolved this was to use a couple of threaded adjusters in the holes at the rear of the base and when in use I just screw them down and give them half a turn which stops the vibration.

 

[conrad]

Hi there I have the BS400 and my vibration issues are because it has the wheel kit. The way I resolved this was to use a couple of threaded adjusters in the holes at the rear of the base and when in use I just screw them down and give them half a turn which stops the vibration.

Thanks Spectric
The saw is on a levelled concrete floor and I have fitted adjusters on each corner of the saw. I'm away for a couple of weeks but when I get back I will pull the saw out, clean the area and reposition it. I just thought that new tyres may also help, given that I am still running the originals.
C

 

[Pabs]

Balancing issues with wheels?

 

[Fergie 307]

On my Kity vibration turned out to be an accumulation of dust and crud in the rims of the wheels. If you had a similar issue make sure the back of the wheels are also clean. I just used a mirror on a stick type inspection tool and a small stuff brush. Surprising just how much stuff had collected on them. I doubt the chap I got it from had ever cleaned them. Ran very smoothly once removed. No idea about the braking, depends how it actually works.

 

[Tony51]

The vibration I had on mine was a kink, not noticeable untill investigated,in the blade.
Tony

 

[conrad]

On my Kity vibration turned out to be an accumulation of dust and crud in the rims of the wheels. If you had a similar issue make sure the back of the wheels are also clean. I just used a mirror on a stick type inspection tool and a small stuff brush. Surprising just how much stuff had collected on them. I doubt the chap I got it from had ever cleaned them. Ran very smoothly once removed. No idea about the braking, depends how it actually works.

Thanks Fergie I will give it a good clean out when I get back.
I'm at a loss re the breaking issue, I haven't a clue.

C

 

[Ttrees]

I'd be going over to TWH2 and seeing what Myfordman, AKA Bob (9fingers) says
about your motor, he knows all about motors and more.

Currently doing some bandsaw experiments over there also, which might highlight something.
should you wish to know your machine inside out, that is...
Or you can carry on pretending, and be clueless like everyone else either.
A heavy table is a great excuse to be ignorant.

It just depends on how bad the machine is, or infact how well you wish the machine to work.
It might just be the answer you've been looking for.
Good luck, should you wish to actually get to know your machine, might see you at The other place2 in the "Machines & power toolery" section.

All the best
Tom

 

[HOJ]

Random thought, presuming this saw is belt driven, check it!

 

[Yojevol]

I wonder if anybody out there can help me.

I have just started to get a lot of vibration on the saw and it has now stopped breaking. The tyres and pulley's were quite bunged up so I have cleared them. I get less vibration now but its still running a bit rough and not breaking.

The saw is about seven years old. Its my first saw, I learnt on it, so probably not always treated as well as it should have been. Its done a lot of work and I use it to cut large pieces, mainly oak, beech, wild cherry, sweet chestnut and ash. I have milled pieces to its maximum 30cm capicity and I use it a lot to cut very large bowl blanks which are often 15cm to 20cm deep.

The only modification I have made was to replace the upper blade guides. The originals were very poor and Record were of no help.

I'm thinking I may be able to improve on the vibration issue by changing the tyres. The original ones still on it seem fine in that they are still in one piece, but perhaps after this amount of time and heavy use they should be changed. Anybody any thoughts on that?

The breaking issue is my real problem as I have now idea what could have caused it to fail other than an issue with the motor itself.

I would be grateful for any help or advice you guys could offer as I'm based in rural Brittany and will have to figure it out for myself.

Thanks

Conrad

What form of braking (I assume you don't mean breaking) do you have? If it's electromechanical it will probably work on a clutch arrangement. Could a damaged clutch be causing the vibration?
Brian

 

[Spectric]

I have been using my BS400 and it does not brake when turned off, just comes to a halt fairly quickly but then I feel it is one of the safer machines compared to the mitre saw or table saw so it gives me no concerns, I am ok with working close to the bandsaw blade which cannot be said of my other saws.

 

[Ttrees]

The 20" Startrite I had seemed to have some sort of electro mechanical brake.
I unsuccessfully tried finding the same noise on one of the RP promo videos,
It's a loud click and an aggressive sounding hum for perhaps 2 seconds.
If the same as that, surely someone would be able advise, should there be issues with that,
I didn't have any issues with mine so never looked close enough.

When unplugged, does the motor spin freely?
IIRC I've briefly read of adjustment regarding that somewhere before.
Hoping there would be some protection for these motors, should the brake be stuck on,
as an induction motor will heat up extremely rapidly if stalled.

 

[no idea]

When I had a BS400 I thought it had a motor brake because the blade would stop fairly quickly after a click sound came from the motor. It was only later that I found out that the clicking sound was the centrifugal switch for the start capacitor.

In terms of the vibration you are getting, try the following:

Remove the blade and switch on - is the vibration there? If not, then the issue is either with the top wheel bearings, blade or tyres. If yes, loosen the belt tension between the motor pulley and bottom wheel and repeat - Is there vibration there still? If yes, you have a motor issue, if no, then the bottom wheel bearings are likely to be an issue.

 

[conrad]

What form of braking (I assume you don't mean breaking) do you have? If it's electromechanical it will probably work on a clutch arrangement. Could a damaged clutch be causing the vibration?
Brian

I don't know anything about this Brian hence my question. I will have to look in to it further.

 

[conrad]

The 20" Startrite I had seemed to have some sort of electro mechanical brake.
I unsuccessfully tried finding the same noise on one of the RP promo videos,
It's a loud click and an aggressive sounding hum for perhaps 2 seconds.
If the same as that, surely someone would be able advise, should there be issues with that,
I didn't have any issues with mine so never looked close enough.

When unplugged, does the motor spin freely?
IIRC I've briefly read of adjustment regarding that somewhere before.
Hoping there would be some protection for these motors, should the brake be stuck on,
as an induction motor will heat up extremely rapidly if stalled.

Yeh Trees the click ad the hum has gone and the wheels spin on. I'll fimd the issue and get it sorted.
Just thought it might have been obvious and somebody here mihgt have been able to help.

 

[conrad]

When I had a BS400 I thought it had a motor brake because the blade would stop fairly quickly after a click sound came from the motor. It was only later that I found out that the clicking sound was the centrifugal switch for the start capacitor.

In terms of the vibration you are getting, try the following:

Remove the blade and switch on - is the vibration there? If not, then the issue is either with the top wheel bearings, blade or tyres. If yes, loosen the belt tension between the motor pulley and bottom wheel and repeat - Is there vibration there still? If yes, you have a motor issue, if no, then the bottom wheel bearings are likely to be an issue.

Cheers no idea
Yeh break has gone. I also think I may have bering issues. I will get it sorted.

 

[Ttrees]

Matt Cremona's recent video on initial troubleshooting and swapping out a motor on his thicknesser might be worth watching.

 

[Sideways]

A genuine question to the OP.

Do you have any documentation that says your BS400 has a brake ?
I ask because I see a whole lot of reasons to deduce it DOES NOT have one, and wonder if - being new to bandsaws when you bought it - you may have been mistaken or misled.

I could have missed it but I've skimmed through the manual and don't see any mention of a brake anywhere.

This is a hobby saw. It has a small motor and probably stops quite quickly without a brake. Most of them will not be used in businesses where the UK health and safety 10 second rule applies so I would not expect Record Power to design in a brake that will add cost and unreliability to a saw that mostly sells to a price sensitive market that doesn't need the feature.

Record Power do not mention the BS400 as having a brake on their website. If it had, I would expect them to promote this safety feature as they do for example on the 3phase Sabre350 which is stated as having an electronic brake. The Sabre is 3 phase, marketed to schools and small trades, and has a heavier build. There are good reasons for including a brake on that model.

The circuit diagram in the manual does not show an electronic brake.

In fact the circuit diagram in the manual shows a simple (single phase) permanent split capacitor motor that doesn't even have a centrifugal switch to go "click" when it starts and stops. That suggests the bandsaw wheels are not heavy enough to need a higher torque twin capacitor motor to spin them up, and so they won't have a lot of inertia that needs braking when the machine is stopped.

The exploded diagram doesn't show any braking mechanism external to the motor.

IF the manual I downloaded for the BS400 is correct for the saw as you bought it (I have no way to check on design changes over the years): I would conclude from this that the saw DOESN'T have a brake so this can't be the cause of your issues.

If your saw HAS been built with a brake and you are convinced that is the source of the vibration, then it can only be in the motor and you will need to remove and strip that.

I'd explore the other answers that have already been offered.

 

[Spectric]

I have been using my BS400 and it does not brake when turned off, just comes to a halt fairly quickly

Hi @Sideways I don't think he read my post ! Maybe he is confusing the clunk on turn off as a brake.

 

[Ttrees]

Timestamped to few seconds before the brake is mentioned by RP personnel on the BS400.
Seems quieter and easier/less aggressive stopping compared to the 502e I had, but perhaps that could be down to drive belt adjustment, not being all that knowledgeable about single phase motors, so I find these kinda threads interesting.




Tom