Record 145/6 Holdfasts

[Bod]

Does anyone have experience of using a Record 145 holdfast in a 146 collar?
I have 2 145s, but only 1 collar, however I have 3 146 collars (1 x Record 23mm dia. 2 x Axminster 25mm dia.)
I cannot find a supply of the smaller collars, the larger is not a problem.
The 145 has 19mm dia. stem. 146 is 22mm dia.
I have 1 146 holdfast, so too be able to use either size would be an advantage. But if the 145 holdfast won't work reliably in a 146 collar, then I shall have to think again.

Thanks
Bod

 

[Eric The Viking]

Sadly they seemed to stop making the 145 a lot sooner than the 146, although I think the 145 works better. I have 146s and I find they can get in the way too much. Also (and it's well over 40 years since I used a 145 at school) the 145 collar probably fits to the bench better.

The supplied clamping ring to go underneath the 146 is pretty useless. My bench has a core of chipboard, and the bolts just dug in when I fitted the collars, despite the clamp ring. I couldn't get rid of a bit of movement - the collar tilts slightly when you put a lot of pressure on.

I do have the collars badly positioned too - far too far from the edge of the bench.

I think the 145 ought to work without any collar at all, in a 20mm hole, if you set it like a blacksmithed holdfast. Leave a bit of the thread projecting downwards, and it will release just by turning the thumbscrew. I think the 146 is too thick to do this.

 

[dickm]

The supplied clamping ring to go underneath the 146 is pretty useless. My bench has a core of chipboard, and the bolts just dug in when I fitted the collars, despite the clamp ring. I couldn't get rid of a bit of movement - the collar tilts slightly when you put a lot of pressure on.

I do have the collars badly positioned too - far too far from the edge of the bench.

Interesting. I reckon my holdfasts are still too near the front edge at about 6" back. The stem still seems to get in the way.
Grandmothers, eggs etc., but how close a fit into your bench is the body of the collar? If its a tight fit and you have the sheet collar under the bench nipped up tight, it should be rock solid.

 

[Vann]

I do have the collars badly positioned too - far too far from the edge of the bench.

I reckon my holdfasts are still too near the front edge at about 6" back.

According to the pamphlet that came with my Record No.145 "bench holdfast - its use and maintenance"
"Minimum distance from bench edge and from bench front":
6 3/8" (162mm) for the No.145 and
7 9/16" (191mm) for the No.146.

Other dimensions that may be of interest:
Maximum reach: #145 - 5 7/8" (150mm); #146 - 7 1/16" (180mm).
Maximum opening: #145 - 6 7/8" (175mm); #146 - 7 5/8" (195mm).

I hope that helps.

Cheers, Vann.

 

[Bod]

Sadly they seemed to stop making the 145 a lot sooner than the 146, although I think the 145 works better. I have 146s and I find they can get in the way too much. Also (and it's well over 40 years since I used a 145 at school) the 145 collar probably fits to the bench better.

The supplied clamping ring to go underneath the 146 is pretty useless. My bench has a core of chipboard, and the bolts just dug in when I fitted the collars, despite the clamp ring. I couldn't get rid of a bit of movement - the collar tilts slightly when you put a lot of pressure on.

I do have the collars badly positioned too - far too far from the edge of the bench.

I think the 145 ought to work without any collar at all, in a 20mm hole, if you set it like a blacksmithed holdfast. Leave a bit of the thread projecting downwards, and it will release just by turning the thumbscrew. I think the 146 is too thick to do this.

My first 145 used to tilt slightly under pressure, but I put that down to having a plywood bench.
The new bench is 1 3/4 inch pine (X joists) so I'm hoping with a tight fit to have no movement, but the age old question, where to put them?
Previously it was fitted to clamp down on the bench hook, so very well back from the edge.

Bod

 

[Eric The Viking]

I think you can't have too many collars! I now have 3x146 and 4x collars. When I rebuild the bench there will be three collars on top and one on a leg (fixed to clamp stock for planing).
I'm still debating ditching them altogether though, in favour of a Tomes-like pair of holdfasts, and/or a sliding pegboard support across the bench front, Shaker-style.

The one advantage they have over traditional holdfasts though is the ability to progressively (gently) increase the pressure. I find this handy during glue-ups, if I'm trying to square-up something. But as I said, mine are almost always IN THE WRONG PLACE for this task :roll:

 

[Bod]

"But as I said, mine are almost always IN THE WRONG PLACE for this task :roll:"

I feel this is the weakness of the holdfast system, collars are most times in the wrong place, but "blacksmith" ones, are too easy to put a new hole where its needed for this job. Resulting in a Swiss Cheese bench!
Having said that, I'm deciding where to put 3 collars, left/right/centre.....front/back/middle...????
Answers on a postcard.

Bod

 

[marcros]

it wouldnt be a big job to turn a few collars would it?

 

[Eric The Viking]

it wouldnt be a big job to turn a few collars would it?

Probably would be. They're cast, and have rings inside, in a sort of ripple-pattern through the thing. The ripple matches the one on the stem of the holdfast - locks when pressure is put on and allows the thing to bump up and down to set it up. It's a sand casting, I think, and not machined.

I know mine would be a whole lot better if the collars were more rigid though.

 

[Vann]

...I'm deciding where to put 3 collars, left/right/centre.....front/back/middle...????
Answers on a postcard.

"Minimum distance from bench edge and from bench front":
6 3/8" (162mm) for the No.145 and
7 9/16" (191mm) for the No.146.

Cheers, Vann.