Putin is a loser

[Fergie 307]

And Hitler approved the Volkswagen beetle.
Quite ironic that a right wing extremist and mass murderer should approve a car that became synonymous with the peace movement in 1960 and 70's hippy culture.

Even more daft is the fact that we didn't want anything to do with it as reparation, "silly little car with the engine in the boot".
I think production only finally ended in Mexico in 2005/6

 

[Jacob]

Where have you got that dung from? Hitler was a sworn enemy of socialism, and the Nazi party was right wing totalitarianism not left wing. The use of socialism in the party name was just to fool working class people that it was looking out for their interests, whereas Hitler's only real interest was keeping the elites around him happy (and races he didn't like, dying).
you’ll find all radical political positions are the same, neither right not left wing once in power.

Communists closed borders, had elites, were hyper national and didn’t like foreigners either.

What’s more is that these communists/socialists, knew you couldn’t run a Utopia in an open system, hence why they all run tightly controlled closed systems.
Something the modern socialist air head hasn’t yet understood l, given they promote mass immigration and socialism which are counter forces.

I'm continually amazed at the rage and anger of so many, about socialism. They sound much like religious fundamentalists, with socialism as the work of Satan.
The weird thing is that these terrified chaps are all beneficiaries of the gentle and benign socialism which has been slowly brought to bear on our society, thanks to the enormous efforts of activists, often at great personal cost to themselves, right back to Magna Carta. The most recent big push was the Attlee govt with NHS etc. Surely nobody seriously would want to turn the clock back?

 

[Jacob]

Even more daft is the fact that we didn't want anything to do with it as reparation, "silly little car with the engine in the boot".
I think production only finally ended in Mexico in 2005/6

We did seize on the DKW RT 125 two stroke motorbike and rebadged it as the BSA Bantam. The only "modern" motorbike ever made in Britain, before the Japanese got in on the act?

 

[Terry - Somerset]

Actually Im going to blame the Americans as well as Russia for Socialism failing in Russia.

The constant battle of one needing to prove the other is a failed ideology and a series of 'races' The cold war, the arms race, even the space race.

But the blame lies mostly with the US.
What a world we could have had if not for the greed of capitalism. Which if you look around you it is pretty damn clear that the system of capitalism has led to boarded up shops and homes, a concentration of wealth in the hands of a few and little to no 'filtering down'.

The division between rich and poor is huge. Do you think its going to suddenly narrow ?, or grow worse and worse until ... We end up living in a completely dystopian future

These failures both in the US and the UK are not the fault of socialism,squarely, fully and most decidedly with the capitalism model, The fall out and deprivation has brought regular everyday people strive to make things better with food banks and now heat banks, and volunteering for SOCIAL projects that are there purely to help their fellow man.

This is a bizarre conclusion. Socialism and capitalism are different "games".

Socialism has its roots in the needs of society and individuals within it - fairness, opportunity, decency, concern for the less fortunate etc - all entirely worthy. No one seems able to define what the optimum socialist outcome looks like, nor any example of its success.

Capitalism is about the optimal deployment of resources through market forces - success being measured in terms of profit and value.

A reality is that capitalism will swamp pursuit of socialist ideals. Thus achievement of socialist goals relies upon understanding and influencing capitalists and capitalism. They are not competing philosophies. Assuming they are may be the root of the relative failure of socialism.

 

[Fergie 307]

We did seize on the DKW RT 125 two stroke motorbike and rebadged it as the BSA Bantam. The only "modern" motorbike ever made in Britain, before the Japanese got in on the act?

Loads of companies made copies of that design including Harley Davidson. Either Kawasaki or Yamaha started out by making a version of it. Funny to stick a bantam alongside an older MZ, like a TS. Same engine but BSA mirrored it to put the gearchange on the right, rather than have Johnny Foreigner's layout

 

[Fergie 307]

I'm continually amazed at the rage and anger of so many, about socialism. They sound much like religious fundamentalists, with socialism as the work of Satan.
The weird thing is that these terrified chaps are all beneficiaries of the gentle and benign socialism which has been slowly brought to bear on our society, thanks to the enormous efforts of activists, often at great personal cost to themselves, right back to Magna Carta. The most recent big push was the Attlee govt with NHS etc. Surely nobody seriously would want to turn the clock back?

I think religion is a good analogy.
Looks good on paper in many cases, love thy neighbour etc.
It's when people get involved and come up with extreme interpretations that it all goes pear shaped.
No different on the right of course.
Extremes rarely a good thing whatever the subject.
No one should equate socialist leanings with being a pillock, any more than they should assume that anyone vaguely to the right is necessarily an avid reader of the Daily Mail

 

[Mickjay]

I think religion is a good analogy.
Looks good on paper in many cases, love thy neighbour etc.
It's when people get involved and come up with extreme interpretations that it all goes pear shaped.
No different on the right of course.
Extremes rarely a good thing whatever the subject.
No one should equate socialist leanings with being a pillock, any more than they should assume that anyone vaguely to the right is necessarily an avid reader of the Daily Mail

Well said!
One interesting, to me anyway, thing in your post is that pillock appears to be acceptable to the censors but i**ot isn't. I wonder if it doesn't exist in other English's so gets through .

 

[Fergie 307]

Well said!
One interesting, to me anyway, thing in your post is that pillock appears to be acceptable to the censors but i**ot isn't. I wonder if it doesn't exist in other English's so gets through .

I was wondering what it would change it to, and rather surprised it was ok.
As you say perhaps not a term familiar to our American friends.

 

[woodieallen]

I was wondering what it would change it to, and rather surprised it was ok.
As you say perhaps not a term familiar to our American friends.

They probably think it’s what you climb up when you’re out for a country walk

 

[Hypnotic Chimera]

This is a bizarre conclusion. Socialism and capitalism are different "games".

Socialism has its roots in the needs of society and individuals within it - fairness, opportunity, decency, concern for the less fortunate etc - all entirely worthy. No one seems able to define what the optimum socialist outcome looks like, nor any example of its success.

Capitalism is about the optimal deployment of resources through market forces - success being measured in terms of profit and value.

A reality is that capitalism will swamp pursuit of socialist ideals. Thus achievement of socialist goals relies upon understanding and influencing capitalists and capitalism. They are not competing philosophies. Assuming they are may be the root of the relative failure of socialism.

Kind of.

Although separation between the (global) Economy and the (domestic) Government can mean we have a capitalist (global) Economy which is at least partly regulated by a socialist (domestic) Government. The two concepts, taken to extremes are indeed separate games, but can still work together for the benefit of a society.

 

[Jacob]

This is a bizarre conclusion. Socialism and capitalism are different "games".

Meaningless. Socialism is about managing affairs for the benefit of us all. Capitalism (as currently understood!) is an aberrant theory that management is not needed and pure self interest is best for everybody.
A really bizarre conclusion! Could make a good novel, a fantasy society based on self-interest, the sort of thing which Gulliver might have encountered if he'd travelled further! Next after the Yahoos, perhaps their close relatives?

Socialism has its roots in the needs of society and individuals within it - fairness, opportunity, decency, concern for the less fortunate etc - all entirely worthy. No one seems able to define what the optimum socialist outcome looks like, nor any example of its success.

Who knows what the optimum socialist outcome looks like? We might have passed it already! Why do you think it should be defined?

Capitalism is about the optimal deployment of resources through market forces - success being measured in terms of profit and value.

Yes. Unfortunately success is not measured in terms of quality of life for all. In fact left to it's own devices (according to the current fantasy made-up free-market ideology) it leads to extremes of inequality.

A reality is that capitalism will swamp pursuit of socialist ideals.

Nonsense. "Capitalism" is utterly self destructive, unless regulated, trimmed, redirected, to meet the needs of the many, not the few. Currently seems to be destroying the planet itself!

Thus achievement of socialist goals relies upon understanding and influencing capitalists and capitalism. They are not competing philosophies. Assuming they are may be the root of the relative failure of socialism.

Philosophy has nothing to do with it. It's about how to manage our affairs for the benefit of all.

 

[Jake]

you’ll find all radical political positions are the same, neither right not left wing once in power.

Communists closed borders, had elites, were hyper national and didn’t like foreigners either.

Yes I agree. That's no surprise. The old horse shoe thing.

What’s more is that these communists/socialists, knew you couldn’t run a Utopia in an open system, hence why they all run tightly controlled closed systems.

True

Something the modern socialist air head hasn’t yet understood l, given they promote mass immigration and socialism which are counter forces.

Not sure who you are talking about, but if you are trying to paint an equivalence between fascists and communists and any major political force on the left in the West, that's obviously just wrong. On the right, well not so much, much closer.

 

[Jacob]

Capitalism destroying the planet. https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/copout-capitalism-unwilling-and-unable-save-planet

 

[AJB Temple]

Morning Star is not at all biased. Appeals to LWN's.

 

[Delaney]

Not sure who you are talking about, but if you are trying to paint an equivalence between fascists and communists and any major political force on the left in the West, that's obviously just wrong. On the right, well not so much, much closer.

I was pointing out that you cannot promote large scale immigration and claim to be a socialist.
One is a counter force to the other.

 

[RobinBHM]

Something the modern socialist air head hasn’t yet understood l, given they promote mass immigration and socialism

Who are you referring to?

When you talk about a “socialist” who do you actually mean?

the phrase “mass immigration” is a used endlessly by people on the right….but what does that actually mean?

I’ve never heard of anybody who is on the left, any Labour supporter talk about wanting mass immigration.

It would be helpful if you could clarify what you actually mean

 

[Jacob]

I was pointing out that you cannot promote large scale immigration and claim to be a socialist.
One is a counter force to the other.

Very weird. The people behind immigration are the immigrants. What's that got to do with socialism?
Doesn't make sense. Did this come to you in a dream perhaps?