Push sticks again.......

[Adam W.]

You should see the workshop technician ( I use that word loosely mind) at college using the saw, it'll make you all faint or explode into a virtual rage.

It's worrying, and is the reason why I drop stuff off and quickly walk out of the shop. She has been forced to stop what she's doing many times, but it doesn't sink in.

 

[D_W]

It's the North American way...

it is, and the dado was probably popularized in volume by Norm using a radial arm saw.

Not sure what's typical here (I don't have a dado set - did when I first started), but the fellow who got me into woodworking did dado work on a sled - it was pretty uneventful. I've lost contact with the current sold goods for power dado work.

Most of the people who started woodworking with the normite list got a radial arm saw (a site tool), and then later got a table saw (with the skeleton ribs or stamped steel). I guess when tools started being made overseas, then everything went up in spec, but the features didn't really change ( and again, I think a lot of it had to do with Norm not using anything on his TS as far as safety goes).

The English fellow who introduced me to kickbacks unintentionally got started with FWW and watching norm - he's averse to even having a splitter for some reason.

The average person here doesn't use hand tools and doesn't do much routing with battens - they want to feed the stock into something. Professional shops on a small scale don't typically exist except for the odd professional joiner here and there (architectural work). The one or two man shops who make cabinets may have existed 40 years ago, but they're pretty uncommon now as anyone who knows how to make cabinets is someone who can make a lot more money installing them.

 

[Sgian Dubh]

2 push sticks in use I see!
The recommendation I first heard for two sticks, on this forum very many years ago, was somebody who said it was his instructors advice. May have been one of your lads?

It might have been, but I suspect not. But yes, I've always got two bird's mouth push sticks to hand when ripping - decades of habit in my case because it's the way I was taught and it's stayed. Slainte.

 

[Sporky McGuffin]

Apologies for a daft question, but how does one use two push-sticks correctly? I've avoided using my tablesaw for rip cuts or anything where my hands might go near the blade on account of it looks ouchy - I've done my rip cuts on the bandsaw, and still with sticks.

I assume I am wrong in this assumption, but with a short fence (and I understand the reasons for such and am not disputing them) and two sticks is there not a significant risk of the timber rotating once it's past the fence? Or does the saw blade itself help guide the workpiece?

I also try not to be in line with the workpiece so that if anything does happen it can just fly across the workshop and not hit me on the way.

 

[Cabinetman]

It might have been, but I suspect not. But yes, I've always got two bird's moth push sticks to hand when ripping - decades of habit in my case because it's the way I was taught and it's stayed. Slainte.

I think it’s been around a while, I was taught it at teacher training college in 1974, I can hear him saying it now, your hands should never pass the front side of the saw table.

 

[Cabinetman]

Apologies for a daft question, but how does one use two push-sticks correctly? I've avoided using my tablesaw for rip cuts or anything where my hands might go near the blade on account of it looks ouchy - I've done my rip cuts on the bandsaw, and still with sticks.

I assume I am wrong in this assumption, but with a short fence (and I understand the reasons for such and am not disputing them) and two sticks is there not a significant risk of the timber rotating once it's past the fence? Or does the saw blade itself help guide the workpiece?

I also try not to be in line with the workpiece so that if anything does happen it can just fly across the workshop and not hit me on the way.

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/thread...cks-to-cut-wood-safely-on-a-table-saw.130321/This was a thread I started, I hesitate to bring it up again!! Not saying my portrail of how to do it is perfect!

 

[Sporky McGuffin]

Much appreciated!

I may well still stick to the bandsaw for ripping, but at least I know how to do it safely on the tablesaw now. Also the links outwards from that about using a crown guard with a sled were most helpful - my sled has a thick bit of polycarbonate above the blade but I'm still not convinced it's safe enough so very rarely use it.

 

[Dynamite]

I enjoy watching tonnes of YT vids on woodworking and after watching many, I am learning how not to do things as much as trying to see "how to...."

Rob

 

[Sporky McGuffin]

I use them more for "what should I make next", not "how should I do this as dangerously as possible".

There are still moments when I 've set everything up ready to go, then stop and look before turning the machine on and think "no, not like that..." - most commonly with the table saw or mitre saw.

 

[Jacob]

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/thread...cks-to-cut-wood-safely-on-a-table-saw.130321/This was a thread I started, I hesitate to bring it up again!! Not saying my portrail of how to do it is perfect!

Looks good except I do think the standard pattern is better - bigger birdsmouth gives you more vertical down pressure at the tip further in on the workpiece, as well as horizontal pushing in. It's more ergonomic than it looks! In fact the profile is not unlike a hand profile with thumb against the edge of a board and knuckles curled on top.
I make copies from scrap mdf or ply. They are consumables and I expect to lose bits from the end, or to trim them to hold something thinner, etc

 

[Sporky McGuffin]

My tablesaw came with one that looks quite a bit like that. Making a copy in scrap is an excellent idea.

 

[southendwoodworker]

I'm new to my little jobsite table saw, and can understand the discussions here about the push sticks.

I am a bit confused about the talk on fence length, and it's not clear to me about why a long fence is bad?

Here is my table saw, I can't tell if this is deemed short or long. You can see the slot of the blade and how far the fence extends past it.

I also watched this quick video and all of this makes sense to me, but is the recommendation in the video correct and safe?

 

[Sgian Dubh]

I am a bit confused about the talk on fence length, and it's not clear to me about why a long fence is bad?
Here is my table saw, I can't tell if this is deemed short or long.

Your fence is long.

I hate to say it but the guy in the video you linked us to doesn't really do it for me. He uses the machine with the splitter (or riving knife if it had one) and crown guard removed. His hands go nowhere near a push stick or even a shoe type pusher at any time and he passes his hand close to the spinning blade - all shockingly bad practice in my eyes. He was only taking a sliver off the edge of a small piece of wood, so it's unlikely there would be enough stress released in the wood to cause kickback - try doing the same hand feeding trick whilst ripping ~100 mm off a piece of ~200 mm wide by 50 mm thick oak, or maple, beech, cherry, redwood, etc, and I would expect him to get into trouble very quickly. When he shows his 'short' fence it's not set right because it extends almost to the back of the blade. Short fences should be set no further back than the centre of the blade, and better still, should be set just beyond the point where the rip cut is complete.

If you go back to page two in this thread (near the bottom of the page) you'll find my first post. There's a link in that post to an article to which I contributed that covers most or all of the issues you have questions about. Slainte.

 

[Austin Branson]

My tutor at college told me that a ‘short’ fence should end at the gullet of the teeth. The theory is that the riving knife will continue the track of the material. He also said that if sawing to less than 6 inches wide (150mm for the youngsters), then a push stick is mandatory.
His name - Tony McMullen. Anyone else know him?

 

[TheTiddles]

This subject again hey? Well, I suppose it has been over a week…

Did you ever have a teacher who said “…and if everyone was jumping off a cliff, would you do that too?”, machinery safety is a bit like that.

HSE publishes guidance which should be your reference, anyone can make a YouTube video, not anyone can publish HSE approved methods. Doesn’t mean they are perfect, but the odds are higher on them being right.

 

[Jacob]

This subject again hey? Well, I suppose it has been over a week…

Did you ever have a teacher who said “…and if everyone was jumping off a cliff, would you do that too?”, machinery safety is a bit like that.

People who spend much time on cliffs and high places such as climbers or access workers, have massively detailed procedures, checks, gear specifications, routines for safety. Not left to common sense at all!

HSE publishes guidance which should be your reference, anyone can make a YouTube video, not anyone can publish HSE approved methods. Doesn’t mean they are perfect, but the odds are higher on them being right.

Agree.

 

[Ozi]

Why do all saws seem to come with long fences?

 

[Doug71]

Why do all saws seem to come with long fences?

I could be wrong but I think it might be a cost thing. Many of the cheaper/smaller/site type saws have a long fence which attaches to the front and back of the saw. The bigger more expensive saws tend to have a fence you can slide backwards and forwards but it only attaches to the front of the saw. I presume to make a fence which doesn't flex and only attaches to the front of the saw things need to be built better and therefore more expensive

 

[D_W]

My tablesaw came with one that looks quite a bit like that. Making a copy in scrap is an excellent idea.

Mine came with the flashy red version of that. The TS hangs on the wall (gives an idea of what level of TS I have), but I wish it came with two. I found that style of push stick a little slick on the side of boards, though that can come in handy if holding wood aside like a featherboard and moving the stick. On the plastic ones now (and all smooth plastic bench dogs), I put a very small amount of contact cement on faces for poor man's rubber grip. It doesn't really come off, it's not thick, etc, but it's got good grip).

 

[TheTiddles]

Plenty seem to come with a sub fence, all seem to have the holes to mount a sub fence for the purpose.