Push sticks again.......

[Doug71]

Sorry for sounding like the safety police but some of us on here are always promoting a proper push stick (min 450mm long, birds mouth end) that stops your fingers getting anywhere near the blade but what chance do we have when popular Youtubers release "educational" videos telling you that style is dangerous and you should use another style that puts your fingers right next to the blade and make it impossible to use the guard for narrow cuts

It's a video about kick back but in his explanation on how to avoid kick back he fails to mention (or use) one of the most important things which is a short fence.

Video should start at the right point, please ignore his bad push stick advice

 

[Peter Sefton]

Or a crown guard.

 

[Adam W.]

He's selling something and trying to justify his poor design.

I switched off after about 5 seconds.

 

[blackteaonesugar]

When I was teaching furniture making in a college, I was already starting to see the effects of a diet of North American YouTube.
Some pretty terrible examples out there influencing beginners.

 

[Jacob]

He's selling something and trying to justify his poor design.

I switched off after about 5 seconds.

Ditto

 

[D_W]

I'm going to talk about something I rarely use - TS. one push stick at the back of a board, and one along the side pushing it toward the fence. And a riving knife, and you can even use a crazy american fence that goes all the way into your neighbor's yard.

If I see amazon links in videos or product sales, I turn the video off no questions asked. (or banggood or ali express or a link to "my website to teach you woodworking").

only mention the pushstick use that way because the board that got me was a thin board that rotated - partially due to being thin and partially because a buddy had a WWI (woodworker 1) blade that was hooked for a radial arm saw and it was a bear to feed - as a beginner, I didn't know why. wouldn't have happened even if I just had two push sticks instead of trying to feed straight in. Wouldn't have even happened with a riving knife.

And my buddy is from England.

If I actually watched power tool videos, I'd ask "why should I buy your push block so that I can get my hands in the blade at a higher point instead of a lower one?"

 

[D_W]

Couldn't resist browsing the link list. I vaguely recall this guy showing up to youtube and the fake "i'm a great woodworker" waft was strong.

Looks like he's gotten better at making videos. I wonder what % of his time is spent making things for other people (and I don't mean cheapest-material-possible safety devices).

The link through revenue listings make me sick - the videos are never made for the purpose that they're shown, it's just a daily guess at what to make to list things for selling.

 

[Yojevol]

When I was buying my Felder combo I pointed out to the salesman that the long fence could be dangerous when used with the saw. He immediately offered to include a short fence at no extra cost.
Brian

 

[Cabinetman]

Yes it’s pretty standard for North Americans, apart from one, I read through all the sycophantic comments nearly all 42 of them and there is our very own David W standing up for two birds mouth push sticks, so well done David
P S it’s just unfortunate for American fingers that he was a lone voice in the wilderness. Almost, there were a couple of other people in amongst all those who had suffered bits of finger missing and chunks out of them, never mind all the injuries from kickback, they nearly all seemed to have had dices with death. etc

 

[Doug71]

Yes it’s pretty standard for North Americans, apart from one, I read through all the sycophantic comments nearly all 42 of them and there is our very own David W standing up for two birds mouth push sticks, so well done David
P S it’s just unfortunate for American fingers that he was a lone voice in the wilderness. Almost, there were a couple of other people in amongst all those who had suffered bits of finger missing and chunks out of them, never mind all the injuries from kickback, they nearly all seemed to have had dices with death. etc

I rarely read the comments but just looked and there is one from Matt Estlea commenting on the video saying "Great work" and also "No doubt this will change some of the bad practices/information that we've all grown far too comfortable seeing."

 

[D_W]

I rarely read the comments but just looked and there is one from Matt Estlea commenting on the video saying "Great work" and also "No doubt this will change some of the bad practices/information that we've all grown far too comfortable seeing."

"no doubt you and I can do videos and push our revenue harvest.......I mean viewers...over to each others' channels to work the YT algorithm and drive link-through revenue"

 

[Cabinetman]

"no doubt you and I can do videos and push our revenue harvest.......I mean viewers...over to each others' channels to work the YT algorithm and drive link-through revenue"

Well it’s an appealing idea David, if I did but understand the lingo! But I doubt I’m quite charismatic enough and banging on about safety isn’t going to sell a lot of videos – oh hold up that’s what he was doing!
Who knows it might be like pop music when the Merseybeat invaded America, come on, back down to earth Ian

 

[D_W]

Well it’s an appealing idea David, if I did but understand the lingo! But I doubt I’m quite charismatic enough and banging on about safety isn’t going to sell a lot of videos – oh hold up that’s what he was doing!
Who knows it might be like pop music when the Merseybeat invaded America, come on, back down to earth Ian

hah...you, of course, know I was snarking those guys who call their viewers "friends" as if they'd have any internet relationship without the ability to sell pointless junk.

I get why these guys have their channels and why people seem to think they're getting great content (they start at them and confuse clear lighting and organized buying lists for doing - and they're at computers). When you want to be woodworking and you're at a computer, or maybe more accurately, 90% of the audience wants to imagine they're woodworking so they're following the links and "building a nest" for when they get skills - at any rate, when you're imagining things you could do without the responsibility of doing them as an audience, it's really easy to buy and plan.

And, trust me, it's not that popular with people when you go to those channels and blast them with the honest ethical issue of pretending to give unbiased information that directs toward a revenue link

But most of us on here probably also would have to admit that pretending to be a woodworker and making videos 95% of the time vs. the other way around isn't very palatable.

 

[Cabinetman]

I include two pages from the Internet which largely agree that about 10 Americans lose fingers/have amputations due to table saws (actually it’s not the tablesaws, it’s due to bad practice and people pushing products which are dangerous) each day! Yes each day, and 40,000 total lacerations per year.What is unfortunate is that I couldn’t find the figures for the UK, I suspect it isn’t as high, but our untrained and inexperienced DIYers are being subjected to YouTube so it could be about a similar %age. What, apart from this type of thread can we do?

 

[D_W]

I think probably not that much because a lot of the injuries are uninitiated workers doing site work short term.

The apron thing is particularly appalling. My kickback hit right below the belt buckle, and fortunately only literally just below it and not a little lower. I have no clue if an apron would've helped, but suggesting a good strategy is one that includes planning to get hit when it can be eliminated pretty easily....not so great.

I've seen a whole lot of site guys (worked on site in high school, but have seen it outside of houses here) using a TS with no fence and no splitter, free feeding stuff on a saw. If that doesn't put fingers in danger, I don't know what does.

 

[Cabinetman]

hah...you, of course, know I was snarking those guys who call their viewers "friends" as if they'd have any internet relationship without the ability to sell pointless junk.

I get why these guys have their channels and why people seem to think they're getting great content (they start at them and confuse clear lighting and organized buying lists for doing - and they're at computers). When you want to be woodworking and you're at a computer, or maybe more accurately, 90% of the audience wants to imagine they're woodworking so they're following the links and "building a nest" for when they get skills - at any rate, when you're imagining things you could do without the responsibility of doing them as an audience, it's really easy to buy and plan.

And, trust me, it's not that popular with people when you go to those channels and blast them with the honest ethical issue of pretending to give unbiased information that directs toward a revenue link

But most of us on here probably also would have to admit that pretending to be a woodworker and making videos 95% of the time vs. the other way around isn't very palatable.

That’s a pretty good description of what’s wrong with our hobby, you just know when you see a tool wall full of planes and chisels that can be hardly be ever used, if ever! That they aren’t actually woodworkers they’re collectors who have great plans probably, but will they ever get round to making something?
But I must say that, on here I am extremely impressed by new devotees to the religion, they are turning out really quite good things for first attempts. I try to encourage at every opportunity- when I think it merits it- and some of the more experienced are superb.
I can somehow imagine you not being too popular over there lambasting them DW, for goodness sake don’t stop. Ian

 

[D_W]

I can somehow imagine you not being too popular over there lambasting them DW, for goodness sake don’t stop. Ian

The good thing about youtube is there's little traffic on my channel - maybe 600 views now. I used to get a few tens of thousands on some videos, but you draw in people who really aren't interested even at that. The algorithms have changed really to drive advertising and some guy making videos about hardening and tempering has nothing for the crowd that wants the next banggood bridge city tool copy and maybe an overpriced shop shirt with a feel good story about being domestically produced (when it's really not).

So, given that I treat it more like a forum, if riff raff crosses over from a post, my channel immediately looks like a garbage dump to them, they pop off, and I take away their posting license. I will have the shade pulled down on my ID on the K-M channel. I'm sure I do on others, too. Cosman, to his credit, has actually always responded kindly to anything that I've said, but my retorts aren't quite of the same nature as the one today pointing out that the video was likely decided first by product and then second by content, and the content wasn't to spoil the pushing of the product. i don't know why the "what can I get out of you" thing sets me off so easily - I think "what can I buy" often spoils the experimenting and improving attitude of "I've got a bunch of stuff in front of me here, what's an opportunity to *try* something and see if it works".

 

[JSW]

Lockdown hobbies led to thousands of injuries in England, NHS data suggests

The data from NHS Digital for 2020-21 showed that more than 5,600 people attended hospital after coming into contact with a powered hand-tool, and more than 2,700 were admitted after an accident with a non-powered hand-tool such as a hammer or a saw.

 

[Inspector]

There is some irony seeing dingleberry demonstrating bad practices while using a SawStop. It will save him from his stupidity but most of his followers that don't have one will get hurt.

Pete

 

[Cabinetman]

Thanks for that it’s very interesting, it’s a shame they don’t make a distinction between a hand tool and bigger equipment, also shockingly that was just admitted (I.e. stayed) to the hospital (Despite what it says) so how many more just attended A&E?