Process for a small veneered panel

[wizer]

Hello my wood obsessed chums

I have it in mind to make a small box for my Dad's xmas present. I have the design worked out and I'd like the top to be a veneered panel. A couple of years ago, out of boredom, I bought some packs of walnut burl veneer off ebay for cheap (£1 for 10 sheets IIRC).

I'm not yet sure if I will use one sheet for the top or try to join two to get a book matched effect. I've seen some tutorials online and DC's DVD, so I think I can joint these with probably a hand plane.

The subase will be MDF. I will be veneering the underside too, tho I'd rather not use the burl, so I might try to cut my own veneer for that. Actually the base and the top will be exactly the same but the base will probably be some sort of secondary veneer.

I was just wondering what glue I should use. Can I get away with PVA? Do I need to use a press or will some considerable weights on top be enough?

The plan is\was to get as much done before Weds and then it shouldn't be too taxing to assemble after a bit of R&R

T I A

 

[JWF]

Wizer

My advise would be not to use Pva as it may "bleed" through the veneer. My favoured glue is hot animal glue or, if it is a small area, "glue film". The film is initially glued to the substrate using a clothes iron (don't tell er indoors!) set on warm with the paper protection still in place. Once cool then place the veneer over to top and with the iron on hot "iron" it in place, bit like edging strip on Contiboard.
I bought some glue film from a veneer suppliers in Stanmore, Middlesex. Can't quite remember the address, but Google veneer may reveal all.
How big an area do you want to cover? If you get stuck (ha;ha) then I may be able to help out.
John

 

[maltrout512]

Don't see a problem with pva. I use pearl glue because thats what all the repair work that I do was originally glued that way. I even did the gun box with pearl glue.

 

[wizer]

Well the 2 panels are 63mm x 232mm. I'm a bit reluctant to go down the hot hide glue route for something I won't be doing much of. Doesn't Titebond do a cold hide glue?

 

[oddsocks]

Wizer, I've attached some photos of a bed leg that I veneered yesterday ...this is part of the very long bed project that I will create a WIP for soon. Basically I couldn't find any 60mm maple so made the legs from 2 x38mm but didn't like the obvious vertical join so decided to veneer it. I used normal titebond applied with a roller (i.e thin even coat) and then MDF formers - a shaped one for the top and offcuts for the rest. The veneer is a single 2m length that wraps from front to back.

I made the former by cutting slightly oversize then used ronseal woodfiller to get the perfect match. This one was then used with a bearing guided cutter to form the other two.

Dave

 

[wizer]

Thanks Dave, I must admit I nearly didn't post and was just going to use TBII. My only concern is, as John says, bleed through. I'll have to sacrifice a piece of the burl to see if it will bleed. I suspect it will being burl.

 

[oddsocks]

.... I'll have to sacrifice a piece of the burl to see if it will bleed. I suspect it will being burl.

let me know if it does - your post reminded me that I have 3 stashes of similar ebay purchases (one of which is walnut burr) sandwiched between mdf and up in the rafters! One day I will get around to making a box or two.

Dave

 

[Davon]

I've used pva many times for veneering 0.6mm with no problems ( only on small jobs ) I've found it better to leave the pva to get really " tacky"
before putting on the veneer, I would then use a roller ( the kind you use on wallpaper joints ) to ensure a good contact, and then like you said Wizer plenty of weight

Davon

 

[SVB]

Wizer,

When I did my box making coarse with Andy Crawford we used PVA thinned down 10% with water to bond veneer.

Brushed it well into a thin film over the mdf and applied the veneer. He has a small press he use but I am sure a sandwich between a couple of bits of 3/4 mdf and either clamped together (do you have any angle iron) would do fine.

Also, he recommends using the same veneer as a balance as the show face (although obviously does not have to be as pretty) to avoid any problems and for 10p a sheet it does not sound too expensive!

Best of luck - don't forget the wips!

S

 

[yetloh]

Tom,

What's all this "burl" business? Didn't know you were a yank!

Seriously though, I would steer clear of glue film, particularly for burr veneers, at all costs. Crispins sold me some for burr maple veneers I bought from them and it was a disaster with bubbles all over the place. I have heard of people getting good results with a hide based glue film but the stuff they sold me was some sort of artificial thermoplastic stuff. I put the rest of it on the skip only a few weeks ago.

In the end, I used Cascamite with complete success. Titebond certainly do a cold hide glue and I see no reason why that should not work. Personally, I wouldn't use a PVA based glue like Titebond on burrs because of its tendency to creep. Burrs have a lot of internal stresses which can lead to cracks opening up, so I like to nail them down (so to speak) as tightly as possible.

Jim

 

[woodbloke]

Tom - bleed through can be an issue if you use too much sticky stuff. TBII would be excellent for veneering (I've used similar sort of stuff for donkey's years).
As a suggestion, lob the whole lot (veneers, mdf) in a jiffy bag and send it to me and I'll do it for you in the AirPress (as I owe you a favour :wink: ) I've got some stuff that could go on the underside (teak or mahogany) as the balancer. If your up for it, let me know how you want the veneers arranged on the show side, include a diagram if it helps.
Bear in mind though possible postage delays with the Christmas season looming, so asap would be good - Rob

 

[jasonB]

I usually use TBII, the top of the table in my avitar was done with it.

Try to use the same thickness veneer on both sides of the panel, you are unlikely to get thin enough cutting your own.

A sheet of polythene over the veneer, MDF caul and then lots of weight will be fine on those small panels, you could even just use a load of clamps as there will be no problems getting pressure to the middle of the panel.

Jason

 

[seanybaby]

I would be tempted to use cascamite in some kind of MDF press.

As your panels are so small there is another way which no one has mentioned. Use PVA on both surfaces, let it dry, then use an iron to glue them together. I have used this technique on small stuff and it seemed to work well.

 

[wizer]

Jim I honestly thought that was the other way around. I though Burl was the correct name for it and Burr was an Americanism. oops

Rob thanks for that. I'll have to see if I can shift this man flu and get ahead of myself before Weds. If I do then I'll send you the bits. But if it's after the 'event' then I'll have to do it myself. Sounds easy enough from the advice given. Then I can save that favour for a rainy day

I need to get my head around the method I've chosen to mate the top. It's from a FWW article. I've actually done it before but I've forgotten the process.

I'm off to sip some lem.

 

[Chris Knight]

Tom,

Contact cement will actually work pretty well. It's not "proper" but it gets the job done without a lot of faffing about and, handily - in the case of burl veneers which are usually delicate, it wont stretch then shrink the veneer like a water based PVA will and which can then cause cracks to appear in the veneer as it dries.

If I were doing it myself, I'd use the iron-on PVA method.

 

[wizer]

Thanks Chris, I'll add that to the list. Contact Cement scares me a bit tho. I'm not known for accuracy under pressure and that stuff sticks like....

Iron On PVA method. Off to google that.

 

[xy mosian]

Just to add another thought. There are a class of 'contact' adhesives known as 'impact'. They require the adhesive on both surfaces to be allowed to dry. I have used this method on a dining table. With both surfaces being dry a newspaper slip sheet can be used while the veneers are correctly positioned. This sheet is withdrawn as the veneer is hammered down, the 'impact' bit. I cannot think of a brand at the moment but the directions usually stats the obvious 'allow both surfaces to dry'.

Not seeking to add confusion

xy

 

[Boothie14]

Not meaning to hijack the thread,but I am doing a similar project-I have two bookmarked pieces how do I joint then so the sit together ?

 

[mailee]

Well Tom I did use PVA for the table top I veneered in beech. I did have some bleed through but I put that down to using too much glue as I applied it with a brush. I think if I had used a rolled or a spatula I wouldn't have had the problem. HTH. :wink:

 

[yetloh]

Yes, I've used Contact adhesive successfully too, although not with burrs. The only disadvantage I have found is that it leaves quite a thick glue line.

Jim