Post-Brexit international tool shopping.

[heimlaga]

I was in the midst of buying second hand cramp head sets off e-bay in the UK and having them sent to Finland just before the Brexit deadline. Still need a few more sets.
Sash cramps of decent quality are awfully expensive in Finland and very hard to find secondhand. Importing secondhand English cramp heads and fitting them to suitable lengths of 25x50x3 rectangular tubing proved to be a cost effective way of getting around that obstacle....... and I still need a few more sets.

Does anyone know how Brexit will affect this?

 

[Rorschach]

Until the end of this year, no effect at all. After that, who knows?

 

[beech1948]

Does anyone know how Brexit will affect this?[/quote]

After Dec 31st this year the UK will be a Third Country in EU speak.

As such you will be liable to Finnish/EU import duties on UK goods.

The UK authorities will try to charge you VAT at 20% but when the item is exported to Finland the VAT will be forgiven by the UK.

However, the Finnish authorities will want to also charge you VAT on the bought price + cost of P&P + import costs.

Hope this helps.
A

 

[heimlaga]

Thanks

That gave rise to another question.

Will they charge 24% Finnish VAT on secondhand tools as well?
Normally secondhand stuff is free from VAT in Finland.

 

[Rorschach]

Who knows? No agreements have been signed so it is pointless talking about it now.

 

[marcros]

Thanks

That gave rise to another question.

Will they charge 24% Finnish VAT on secondhand tools as well?
Normally secondhand stuff is free from VAT in Finland.

"they"? That would be for the Finnish to decide. If you currently pay it on secondhand tools bought from the USA, I would expect to pay it next year on secondhand tools from the UK, if not then not.

The differences that Brexit may make (and it is anybody guess at the moment) is an export tax from the UK, currency exchange rate differences and/or increased shipping costs (if there is currently a subsidy or preferential rate within the EU or if there is increased paperwork etc).

From the EU side, there may be an import tax on goods coming into the EU.

VAT rates on goods coming in to Finland are unlikely to change, other than you will not have the option of paying UK VAT @ 20% rather than Finnish @ 24% which you have now.

 

[beech1948]

Thanks

That gave rise to another question.

That will be upto the Finns to decide. I would expect that they will continue as they have in the past.

 

[AES]

I'd like to add a couple of points to the above - NOT about taxation (VAT/non-VAT), customs duties, and shipping charges (preferential or not). Because I agree with the points above - "unknown at present" - a lot will depend on what's finally negotiated in various trade agreements between the UK, the EU, and other "3rd party" countries.

But what concerns me as someone who lives in a non-EU country is the "willingness" of suppliers in the EU to supply to customers in non-EU countries.

A few examples as illustration - 1st, my wife wanted to buy a silk scarf as a present for someone a few years back. Amazon in Germany would NOT supply to a Swiss address. Neither would Amazon UK. Amazing? Well as there is no Amazon in Switzerland, I thought it was, at the least "surprising". In the end she bought exactly the same thing, on line from China.

2nd, again my wife, who wanted to buy a carry case for some electrical gear. Made in Germany and costing about €18.00 (as per the manufacturer's own leaflet, included within the box the gear came in). Case available in Switzerland but costing CHF 60 (more than 3 times the price). Neither Amazon Germany would supply direct, nor the (German) manufacturer would supply to our Swiss address (although they have an on line sales web site). Could only solved that problem by getting them to deliver to my wife's girlfriend in Germany who then brought it with her on her next visit.

3rd, I bought an oscillating band/drum sander last year. LOTS of different suppliers on line in Germany and UK (the machine is badged with various "German" and other tool brands but seems to be actually produced by at least one OEM in China). Several suppliers in Germany listed the product (with those different badges) including Amazon Germany, who were one of the cheapest. Just about all the German prices were lower than UK prices. But several, including Amazon Germany would not supply to a Swiss address. In the end, I found another German "badge engineer" supplier who would supply - not the cheapest, but price "OK". So deal done. (Useful machine for me BTW).

4th, a few years back I bought a Record Power AC 400 air cleaner for my shop. Record wouldn't supply direct, but pointed me to their Swiss dealer. The Swiss price was nearly half as much again as a German Record dealer I found on line who DID supply me (and BTW, the German supplier's shipping cost was €20 for approx. 200 Kms, the Swiss dealer's shipping charge was nearly CHF 90 (x4!) for less than a quarter the distance)!

There are several other examples I could quote but I think I've made my (various) point7s.

AND I can't actually prove it, but I have the feeling that instances such as the above have been increasing over the last few years.

What is NOT clear to me is if these suppliers are driven by their own internal company policies or by "Govt" Regs. If the latter, which Govt, theirs or "mine"? And how come some suppliers in a particular country WILL actually supply the same goods while others in that same country simply wont?

I do not pretend to know the answers to any of these questions, but like me, and for another example, as member sunnybob living in Cyprus has already found, at least sometimes he, like me in Switzerland, has had to resort to suppliers sending to an address that IS "allowed" and then making personal arrangements to get the goods onwards to where they actually need to be.

I am NOT trying to be a prophet of doom and gloom here, nor am I particularly pro- or anti-Brexit. That's a done deal now anyway. And as above, I have NO idea what's going to happen in the future to ANY of all this.

All I am trying to say is that I suspect that any UK-based member who wants to import tools (or many other things) from anywhere "overseas" is in future in for a bit of surprise and quite a lot of frustration.

And I have absolutely NO idea how the future will be for heimlaga in Finland. Good luck mate!

 

[heimlaga]

Thanks for all the information.

It seems like getting the cramp heads and a few other things from England will be a financial priority the coming year.
What happens after that we will see.

 

[sunnybob]

Ian at tuffsaws will no longer send blades to me in Cyprus because even now, everybody is so unsure what is happening regarding future regs and "retro active" taxes and duties, its just not worth it for the smaller supplier.

To send from germany to switzerland is now the same as to send from the UK to Cyprus. Full customs and excise paperwork on even the smallest item.
Admin costs swallow all profit under these circumstances, let alone suppliers responsibilities on warranty returns.
I'm just waiting now for airport customs to start searching for my "care packages" in my visitors luggage.

 

[AES]

Sorry to hear that Bob, but am not totally surprised.

Wonder what will happen with, say, Tuffsaws (or for another example, Axi) now that UK isn't (or definitely will not be by end 2020) in the EU, and I here order something from a UK supplier - with me in a country which remains outside the EU? Blowed if I know!

But one thing IS clear to me, whether pro- or anti-Brexit (and NO, I'm NOT going there!) there's an awful lot of "general/everyday stuff" that's clearly not yet been worked out, and that "the powers that be" (of whatever political stripe) will in reality take "MEGAYONKS" to work out!

Again, NOT trying to be a "profit of doom" (sorry about that!), but clearly there's going to be some increased costs for at least some suppliers (if only in administering different "classes" of order). Therefore increased costs to some/all of "us".

"Good luck to us all"!

 

[sunnybob]

If I order anything from anywhere outside europe to here (under 20 euro excepted) the package goes to the local post office import counter.
They send me a note of arrival.
I have to go there (30 kms), OPEN the box so they can check the contents. NO, they do NOT trust the export notice stuck to the box!
Show the invoice. Pay 10% import duty and then 20% vat on the value of the invoice, INCLUDING shipping costs.

Or I can leave it there for a postman to take it home for xmas.

After this year its pretty certain that will also apply to UK origin parcels.

 

[Inspector]

What was it like before GB became part of the EU? I would expect things to revert back more or less to the way it was handled then.

Pete

 

[AES]

In my case Pete, I dunno. I only moved to Switzerland permanently in 1990, after UK joined the EU (1973 I think).

 

[sunnybob]

The UK was a very different place back then.
"import" was a word that the general population barely understood and everything for sale in Britain was made in Britain. The food on the table was grown in Britain.
A foreign holiday (Italy and Spain) was something you boasted about at dinner parties.
The world has moved on since then.

 

[Trainee neophyte]

A report from Greece: I discovered today that all parcels from non-eu countries will attract a €15 customs charge, as of today. This seems to be designed to stop Chinese trade in its tracks, or at the very least stop individuals ordering directs to ensure local traders get to make a markup.

I was under the impression that the EU managed the borders and set the import duties, not nation states...

Another thing Greece has started doing, as a member of the EU and Shengen area, is to make it almost impossible for foreigners to work in Greece. They have cunningly made it illegal to work without being part of the health insurance system, but refuse to enroll foreigners. Very clever. Not sure how this is going to play out once foreign journalists and the EU bigwigs get wind of it. Given 20% unemployment and 40% youth unemployment it is a very sensible measure, but it goes against everything EU.

 

[sunnybob]

Eventually the EU will get around to stopping that, after waiting so long that it will have the desired effect.

When i moved here in 08 I brought my large motorcycle with me (1500 cc). Cyprus "allowed" me to register it as duty free, despite coming from a member state. When i wanted to sell it here a couple years later, they wanted the "duty" to be paid. They wanted 4 grand, on a 6 grand bike.
Cyprus was ripping off everybody who brought a vehicle with them. the EU started fining Cyprus year on year increasing the fines. Only after the fines exceeded the income did Cyprus decide to be "lenient" and relax their "rules".
When I eventually sold it, the cowsons still demanded 50 euro "administration fee".

governments will be governments.

I think this thread is going to degenerate, so i wont post anymore in it :roll: 8)

 

[AES]

I understand your frustration sunnybob, and please, I didn't mean to start a(nother) "nasty" thread. On the contrary.

I was simply trying to point out that there's already some just "funny" stuff going on that could lead to affecting what happens when in future UK-based buyers want to import tools (& other goods), and/or when those based either within or outside the EU want to export goods to UK.

I don't pretend to know all the answers (I don't know any of 'em!) but there's already some "funny" stuff going on in some cases & places, and IMO it'll continue to get "funnier" until everything settles down again - "one of these fine wet days".

 

[Trainee neophyte]

I understand your frustration sunnybob, and please, I didn't mean to start a(nother) "nasty" thread. On the contrary.

I was simply trying to point out that there's already some just "funny" stuff going on that could lead to affecting what happens when in future UK-based buyers want to import tools (& other goods), and/or when those based either within or outside the EU want to export goods to UK.

I don't pretend to know all the answers (I don't know any of 'em!) but there's already some "funny" stuff going on in some cases & places, and IMO it'll continue to get "funnier" until everything settles down again - "one of these fine wet days".

The EU may slowly disintegrate as individual countries make their own decisions based on local requirements - it's easy being united when the economy is going well, but the downturn is already here, and the ECB wants to print to infinity as a result - stagflation will make everyone grumpy, and grumpy electorates make odd decisions. Interesting times ahead.

 

[lurker]

I was on holiday in Madeira the other week.
At breakfast in the hotel a German chap asked me about leaving the eu, all very good natured.
I jokingly said after next year, there would only be his country paying for the lot.
His attitude changed and he said this was a big concern (back home)and feared that the outcome would be a major shift to the right .