Poor man's Joint Master?

[transatlantic]

It looks like Axminster are now selling 2 Bridge City toolworks chopstick items. Interestingly, they use the upside down saw idea.

https://youtu.be/PEXCrK6Jsgo?t=246

 

[Gerard Scanlan]

Yes I was pleased to see that Axminster have chopstick master in stock. Although I am not interested in that particular tool. This is a good sign as the jointmaster must be hot on its heels.

 

[Geordie Joe]

It's the pushing force you have to put behind it. I don't have to push hard into a table or bandsaw, makes me more squeamish.

Yes but using a jointmaster, even a shop made one, you have to hold the wood you are cutting tight to the fence with your hands either side of the saw blade. As long as your hands, or any part of them are not in line with the saw you are never going to come into contact with it, no matter how hard you push.

 

[Geordie Joe]

I knocked up a quick version, just to test the cutting, and stripped the teeth from two saw blades using construction timber bought from Homebase. It was only 12mm x 25mm and setting the end of the saw blade to 12mm high I didn't even come close to cutting through it. Each time I tried the wood jammed half way down the saw and I lost a couple of teeth from the saw. The saw didn't cut very far into the wood either, only a couple of mil. at most.

I did think that maybe it was me not pushing hard, or fast enough. Possibly not confident enough, pushing wood across an upturned saw blade did seem a strange, even unnatural thing to do.

Blade stripping issues.

I really can't wait for the Chinese licensed version now.

I think you may find that it is one of those things that look like a really good tool, until you try it and find it only works on the softest wood. They don't mention what type of wood they are using in the videos, do they?

I still think a spring loaded blade is the way to go

 

[Gerard Scanlan]

Hi Joe,

This teeth stripping issue seems to have been resolved by Bridge City Tools because I have not found any references to it on their owners forum.
The Chinese company (Harvey) currently want more than Bridge City Tools do themselves for Jointmaster unless you order 15 units. I have spoken to a few tool retailers in Europe but no one seems to want to risk that kind of investment. The Jointmaster does have two different cross cut blades. One for hard woods and one for softwoods.

 

[Geordie Joe]

Hi Joe,

This teeth stripping issue seems to have been resolved by Bridge City Tools because I have not found any references to it on their owners forum.

Can you ask them? Maybe the blades are thicker, or longer, a longer blade would mean a lower angle for a given hight compared to my saw.

The Chinese company (Harvey) currently want more than Bridge City Tools do themselves for Jointmaster unless you order 15 units. I have spoken to a few tool retailers in Europe but no one seems to want to risk that kind of investment. The Jointmaster does have two different cross cut blades. One for hard woods and one for softwoods.

Maybe Harvey never intended to sell to the public. I can't blame retailer for not wanting to take a chance on them, it's a lot of money to saw wood.

If you can ask in the owners forum, ask what the difference is in the blades.

 

[Geordie Joe]

Just had another look at the videos and two things are apparent.

The saw blade is longer than normal and both ends of the saw move up and down. It actually tells you to do this in the dovetail video. You set the height of the cut at the front (furthest away from you) and set the height at the back (nearest you) so the first tooth is level with the table. So when you cut wood it always uses the full length of the saw.

So I think that is the secret, longer blade and raising it at both ends, If you look closely at some of the videos (hit the pause button when they are actualy cutting wood) it is clear that it has taken a few passes to cut the wood. In some places in the videos the saw blade is almost horizontal when they are just finishing cutting the wood. It appears they have taken a swipe with the blade low then raised it for another swipe. Each time they raise the front of the blade they also raise the back so the wood always hits the first tooth of the saw then travels across every tooth.

Maybe it's time to look at this again, with a better raising and lowering system.

 

[Geordie Joe]

Things just come to you don't they!!!!!

Sitting here racking my brain trying to think of a saw I could use that was long enough and the right height. Then it hit me, from Bridge City themselves, they are bound to sell spare blades.

And they do, 3 for $120. They do 3 different types of cross cut blade and a rip cut blade, but the packs have 3 of the same blade in them.

So how does this sound

Dear Bridge City

I own a jointmaster but the blade has lost some of it's teeth, so can I buy a replacement and will you ship it to the UK?

Edit cause I forgot: Have you seen the blades 28 and 32tpi......the one I used had about 16 at the most!

 

[Gerard Scanlan]

All good points Joe. The saw length definitely makes a difference. Softwoods generally need sharper tools to leave clean edges than hard woods. If the impulse hardening on the Japanese saw blades we have been experimenting with has made the teeth too hard. They will stay sharp longer but be extra brittle.
An extra long resharpenable Japanese saw blade might be better but they are very expensive (although not as expensive as a joint master) and easily spoiled. Perhaps some one who has resharpenable Japanese saws can enlighten us.
If you read the blog on the Bridge City Tools website about the cooperation with Harvey Tools in China it does not appear as though they were not willing to supply directly to consumers. They will eventually need retailers to stock these tools or they will go out of business. They are not making them for the already established American Market.
I do not understand why a European tool retailer doesn't just take orders in a form of group buy.
Everyone seems to be too busy to be bothered.
I will ask some questions about hardwoods and teeth stripping on the BCT forum and report back.

 

[Geordie Joe]

Gerard, the big question is why the saw has 28/32 tpi. Is it because less tpi would mean larger teeth which would break easier, or is it purely for a smoother cut?

I've had a look around but for the length and depth of blade we need the best tpi I can find is only 15. Although Irwin do a 19tpi that might be suitable.

 

[Gerard Scanlan]

I have read all I could find on the Bridge City Tools Forum about the Joint Master Pro including reviews and tweaking while setting up.
I think that important issues are;
the length of the blade. It is very long. A lot longer than any Japanese saw I can find.
the number of teeth. It has a lot of teeth per inch. a lot more than I could find on a standard japanese blade.
the angle the blade is presented to the work piece. It is critical the angle is not too steep. And the fact that you can present the blade in increments for successive cuts means this is easy to do.
the clamping of the work. So that it does not play on the blade.
The more I read the more I have come to realise how complicated it becomes to take the idea of fastening a saw blade between two blocks of wood to cut a groove in a piece of timber if you really want to perfect it. My model to see if I could justify the real thing seems to bear this out too. Too much play between the tables, or the work and the blade strips the teeth from the blades.

I do not think that cutting accurate dovetails is a good justification for buying this tool. Then you are better off practicing sawing on scrap material for a while longer. This tool allows you to make far more imaginative things. Things that would be too dangerous to saw on an circular saw. Things that would be too tedious to saw with a handsaw because they would require endless trimming.
I really wish someone in Europe would stock them.

 

[Gerard Scanlan]

Hi Joe,
Have you made any progress obtaining longer japanese saw blades with more teeth per inch? I see that damaging the blades on the actual jointmaker is a bit on an issue until you get the hang of it. It seems that for harder timbers and thicker pieces you need to edge the blade up milimetre by millimetre. The work also has to be firmly clamped because this will easily kink the blade if it isn't.

 

[Geordie Joe]

Hi Joe,
Have you made any progress obtaining longer japanese saw blades with more teeth per inch? I see that damaging the blades on the actual jointmaker is a bit on an issue until you get the hang of it. It seems that for harder timbers and thicker pieces you need to edge the blade up milimetre by millimetre. The work also has to be firmly clamped because this will easily kink the blade if it isn't.

Hi Gerard

No, and to be honest I put it on the back burner then forgot about it. Before it went on the back burner I was thinking about buying a universal handsaw, something like the one in the link below, just to try it.

http://www.mytoolshed.co.uk/p108552...RSaR52Gy9G3T_fS03yuGEIabSY6CH0lhoCtWEQAvD_BwE

If it worked I could always invest in a better one.

 

[Gerard Scanlan]

Hi Joe,

The Harvey version is for sale now in the Netherlands.
https://www.gereedschappro.nl/cirkelzaa ... -pro/21330
A lot less expensive than importing it from the USA, still a wad of cash.
Now where did I put that piggy bank?

 

[Geordie Joe]

Hi Gerard

I wouldn't pay that much for one.....unless they let me test if for a week before parting with any money.

On the other hand, for 50 euros + P+P you can get a saw blade.