Poor english

[Tusses]

I feel a little bit self conscious after reading all of this now!

Steve

If i am taking this in the correct context, exactly, how many people will be put off of posting because they feel, the more learned will be more interested in how well they spell,punctuate and the choice of words they use, than the actual post itself.

I should imagine quite a few ! which is why I have taken the time to 'debate' the point

I know my strengths and weaknesses - my weaknesses dont cause me to be self concious (they used to)

To anyone reading this thread - dont worry about it ! look at the number of posts - reads and then the number of members who are actually snooty about it. (sorry - but I find the word appropriate and it's not aimed at any one person) against the total number of members.

Not got time now - but I'll post the figures later if anyone wants

 

[RogerS]

I feel a little bit self conscious after reading all of this now!

Steve

If i am taking this in the correct context, exactly, how many people will be put off of posting because they feel, the more learned will be more interested in how well they spell,punctuate and the choice of words they use, than the actual post itself.

I should imagine quite a few ! which is why I have taken the time to 'debate' the point

I know my strengths and weaknesses - my weaknesses dont cause me to be self concious (they used to)

To anyone reading this thread - dont worry about it ! look at the number of posts - reads and then the number of members who are actually snooty about it. (sorry - but I find the word appropriate and it's not aimed at any one person) against the total number of members.

Not got time now - but I'll post the figures later if anyone wants

Jeez ...now those who stand up for and appreciate the use of good English are somehow 'snooty'.

I give up. I'm ducking out of this thread. Now where's the Stop Watching button?

 

[Mark68]

Roger..go back and read the first half a dozen or so posts on the topic..

 

[Tusses]

ok - waiting for some glue to dry so ....

is snooty not the 'correct' and 'appropriate' word for comments like this

Instead, I luxuriate in the pompous thought that I'm better educated than the poor old soul who's at fault.

there are others.

the point is being made that some that dont post perfect english might feel a little intimidated after such comments !

not aimed at anyone !!!!

oh - and I found your rattle if you want it back

 

[mr]

is snooty not the 'correct' and 'appropriate' word for comments like this

Instead, I luxuriate in the pompous thought that I'm better educated than the poor old soul who's at fault.

No it isn't appropriate or correct, rather an illustration of your reading of Gill's intent in that statement which in my opinion is incorrect, so no, not correct or appropriate at all.

For my own part I have no issue with people who can't spell or whose grammar is poor. There are spell checkers and so on available to help them. It's the lack of effort to express ones self that we sometimes see that annoys me. If I can't understand something instantly I tend to move on if I get the impression that the writer hasn't tried to express himself or herself clearly. If I come across text speak I won't bother even trying to decipher it

Cheers Mike

 

[Tusses]

Snooty - overly conceited

whether it was intended or not, to those that post here, knowing that they are thought of like this might make them a bit self conscious ? no ?

after all - there is 'polite' reply and there is reading between the lines of that reply. As for whether or not 'snooty' is true in this case or others - it's wide open to be perceived that way !

We are talking about peoples perception of one and other are we not ?

I am sure , well I hope !, that the 'possibly' snooty posts here weren't intended to be so . That wouldn't be very nice now would it . But text is a funny thing, perception of a post will vary considerably from person to person.

Dont just think how it was intended - think of all the ways it could be perceived !

 

[Bodrighy]

If I was on a forum for the promotion of better use of the language I would expect a good standard of spelling, grammar etc but as this is for woodworkers I personally really don't mind the bad spelling, grammar, and sometimes almost incomprehensible technical terminology that is used. I recognise that nearly everybody is far more skilled than I am at the craft and appreciate all the help that I receive here. Having spent a fair bit of time working with people with learning difficulties perhaps I am less pone to being upset by it but at the end of the day I just can't get that bothered by it.

I have pretty high qualifications in both English language and Literature but can't type for love nor money as can often be seen. As long as I can communicate my meaning that is what I consider important. Life is too short to get irritated by these things.

Pete

 

[woodbloke]

But text is a funny thing, perception of a post will vary considerably from person to person.

Dont just think how it was intended - think of all the ways it could be perceived !

...which for me, at least, is the reason why posts need to be as accurate as possible so that the poster's initial meaning is not perceived as different from the intended one, meaning that grammar ought to be correct as well as spelling. Sometimes it's quite tricky to try and convey information exactly as intended, especially if the topic under discussion is a complicated one...not that we have many of those here :wink: - Rob

 

[davegw]

Personally speaking I wouldn't be likely to be put off from posting because of Bad Spelling or grammar, although I have noticed I am taking much more care about it (not a bad thing)

What would put me off is, in my opinion: wilful misunderstanding by protagantists on both sides of the argument; mis & out of context quotations; and, the use of language I believe inappropriate (and before someone shouts that we are all adults here - I don't remember seeing the "over 18's only" sign on the way in).

I don't believe anyone in this thread or any other has ever been (purposefully) put down by anyone else for there use of grammar or spelling. Mistakes have been pointed out, and it could be argued that when this is done it should be via a private message not in the public forum.

I also believe there is a generational gap, probably exacerbated by the liberal education chiefs, that means that emphasis on getting the "message" across has become more important than getting it right. That surely is the crux of the matter?

Everyone (and I mean everyone) here has argued that the message is the most important thing, Someones ability to craft their message in an appropriate fashion depends on their Knowledge, Education, Time Available, and Interest.

I suggest that some of us have more time than others, and certainly more interest in the written word.

As a tool for communication this is a very poor medium. High Context, High Quality communication relies on Face to Face contact, so that intonation, body language, facial expressions, etc can be taken into account (I read somewhere that this is about 90% of human communication). Low context communication such as swapping messages in a forum are improved when we try to add context (such as smilies) and denigrated when we remove information (such as using text speak).

I like it here, enjoy the debate and am interested in everyones opinions, please please please don't anyone hold back from posting because of anything they have read in this thread.

 

[Digit]

It's the lack of effort to express ones self that we sometimes see that annoys me.

My view also, or in another context, making something in wood, as a hobby, that's 'near enough', not the best that you can do.
If it's worth doing. it's worth doing well.
To me it's a matter of pride that no matter how bad the finished result, it's the best that I am capable of, and perhaps I'll do better next time around.


Roy.

 

[Smudger]

I feel a little bit self conscious after reading all of this now!

Steve

If i am taking this in the correct context, exactly, how many people will be put off of posting because they feel, the more learned will be more interested in how well they spell,punctuate and the choice of words they use, than the actual post itself.

None.
I'm not put off from posting because I make crap dovetails.

 

[Smudger]

Seen in Sainsburys (sic) today:

'Air Freshner'



Sigh...

 

[davegw]

It's the lack of effort to express ones self that we sometimes see that annoys me.

Before I say what I am going to say I should nail my colours to the mast. I believe that everyone whould use the best english they are capable of. That said...

...we have to be careful when accusing someone of lack of effort, extending the woodworking analogy a little further. I could spend hours creating dovetails to join two pieces of wood together and at the end of it end up with something that could at best be described as mediocre, somebody else could do a much better job in a 10th of the time, and still not have really made an effort. Lack of ability is often masked by percieved lack of effort.

A fact I tried to explain to my school football teacher until I was blue in the face!

 

[woodbloke]

Digit wrote:

My view also, or in another context, making something in wood, as a hobby, that's 'near enough', not the best that you can do.
If it's worth doing. it's worth doing well.
To me it's a matter of pride that no matter how bad the finished result, it's the best that I am capable of, and perhaps I'll do better next time around.


Roy.

Agree with Roy here, that something you make has to be the best that you, as an individual, can make it. One way of doing better next time is for others to offer an honest opinion on the piece which is why I sometimes offer a critique on jobs seen on the Projects Forum. By being aware of things that could be improved (in my view) the originator can hopefully be aware of my suggestions and possibly incorporate them into the next piece.
I'll be posting some pics of a finished project at the weekend and hope that you'll be able to offer useful guidance on what you like or don't like as the case may be. In my view this is one way that we can improve the quality of practical work - Rob

 

[Digit]

How true folks, how I envied one student during my college days, he spent most of his time in the pub with girls whilst I sweated over papers, and the ******* still got better results than me!

Roy.

 

[Tusses]

Well it seems we are getting back to a more healthy discussion

Good !

 

[Tusses]

Personally speaking I wouldn't be likely to be put off from posting because of Bad Spelling or grammar, although I have noticed I am taking much more care about it (not a bad thing)

What would put me off is, in my opinion: wilful misunderstanding by protagantists on both sides of the argument; mis & out of context quotations; and, the use of language I believe inappropriate (and before someone shouts that we are all adults here - I don't remember seeing the "over 18's only" sign on the way in).

I don't believe anyone in this thread or any other has ever been (purposefully) put down by anyone else for there use of grammar or spelling. Mistakes have been pointed out, and it could be argued that when this is done it should be via a private message not in the public forum.

I also believe there is a generational gap, probably exacerbated by the liberal education chiefs, that means that emphasis on getting the "message" across has become more important than getting it right. That surely is the crux of the matter?

Everyone (and I mean everyone) here has argued that the message is the most important thing, Someones ability to craft their message in an appropriate fashion depends on their Knowledge, Education, Time Available, and Interest.

I suggest that some of us have more time than others, and certainly more interest in the written word.

As a tool for communication this is a very poor medium. High Context, High Quality communication relies on Face to Face contact, so that intonation, body language, facial expressions, etc can be taken into account (I read somewhere that this is about 90% of human communication). Low context communication such as swapping messages in a forum are improved when we try to add context (such as smilies) and denigrated when we remove information (such as using text speak).

I like it here, enjoy the debate and am interested in everyones opinions, please please please don't anyone hold back from posting because of anything they have read in this thread.

Very well put IMHO

 

[Tusses]

It's the lack of effort to express ones self that we sometimes see that annoys me.

My view also, or in another context, making something in wood, as a hobby, that's 'near enough', not the best that you can do.
If it's worth doing. it's worth doing well.
To me it's a matter of pride that no matter how bad the finished result, it's the best that I am capable of, and perhaps I'll do better next time around.


Roy.

Roy , if I may add ...

on the woodworking analogy.

What if a piece just needs function, not beauty ?

Sure, you could taper a piece of best burly maple, inlay it with the finest exotic hardwoods and marquetry . Spend a week french polishing it ...



..




...



....
when in fact all you need is a wedge to keep the door open !

same with language

 

[Mark68]

I think someone has hit one of the nails on the head in a previous post, the generation gap!!
I have heard it quite a bit,,maybe not on here, where the older generation always seem to think that the younger generation are never as good as them. I expect this has happened all down through time as well, but i think this might play a very big part in what is being discussed here..

I go back to something i said in a earlier post. Many years ago, i worked with a old bloke, now he use to go around asking people to spell chrysandthemun and ukulele, really important words!! but when people could not spell them, he would launch into how all young people were thick and stupid, not like him who could spell and everything, how he never got punched out i never know, mind you they did try to blow him up a few times.but thats a different story.

 

[Smudger]

Nope. Not the same.

You needed technique to make the wedge no matter what you made it from. That's what we are talking about with language.