Poor english

[Smudger]

Shall we start on split infinitives?

 

[RogerS]

Shall we start on split infinitives?

I'll boldly go first

 

[Smudger]

It's life, Jim...

 

[Mark68]

Is that, to boldly go where no man has gone before.

 

[mr]

Whilst sympathising with all of the above and deploring the low standards of modern usage, (try some of the DSS papers!) English is an evolving language.
Most of us would have difficulty with works by Darwin which is quite recent, but you might like to try your hand at this and see if you can identify a title.

ICH wes in one sumere dale
In one swiþe dyele hale
Iherde ich holde grete tale
An vle and one nyhtegale.
5: Þat playd wes stif & starc & strong
Sum hwile softe & lud among;
And eyþer ayeyn oþer swal,
And let þat vuele mod vt al.
And eyþer seyde of oþres custe
10: Þat alre-wrste þat hi ywuste:
& hure & hure of oþres songe
Hi holde playding swiþe stronge.
Þe Nihtegale bigon þo speke
In one hurne of one beche,

Loosely and with scant regard for the poetry;

I was in the dale in spring
in one quet corner
where I heard a great argument
between an owl and a nightingale.
Sometimes soft and other times loud
but each was strong and fierce and proud.
And each overbore the other and let out all the ire they held.
Each saying the the worst about the other
and each holding strong about the others song.
The Nightingale began to speak
...
The sentence continues.

A bit rusty but I have read more than my fair share of Mediaeval Eng lit.

Cheers Mike

 

[Digit]

Thanks for that Mike, it fills in the gaps.

Roy.

 

[Tom K]

Am I the only one who is irritated by the misuse of "myself" & "yourself", when people mean me or you.

There is a prevalence of how people usually those who speak to customers saying "yourself" because they seem to think that "you" is somehow too assertive.

Drives me mad!!! :twisted: :twisted:

Having read through the entire thread I can't quite see the OP's problem.
A sales person enquires "Is it for yourself?" why do you believe it to be incorrect?

Regards Tom

 

[BradNaylor]

I would like to thank Dan for transporting me back to my junior school days, when as largely uneducated young boys with extremely limited vocabulary, "thick as pigshit"was our favourite phrase when we wanted to get at someone. If the headmaster heard you he would say, "that is the language of an uneducated buffoon, so what does that make you boy" and you had to say "an uneducated buffoon sir" If he was still alive today I would be delighted to be able to tell him that it was no longer looked on in that way and is in fact part of the vast vocabulary of highly intelligent adults. I am in fact thinking of adding it back into my still limited vocabulary.

Dennis

Your headmaster was wrong, with a typically snobbish attitude to the English language. Admittedly though, as a headmaster he had a responsibility to control the use of profanities by his charges.

English is a multi-layered and very subtle language. It has a vocabulary far larger than most, with many different ways of expressing the same thing, depending on the abilities of the writer, the nature of the audience, and the impact that the writer is trying to make.

Very often maximum impact can be made by the use of a profanity. This is not 'bad' English; far from it! Some of the greatest writers in our history have used the most outrageous swear-words in the right context and to splendid purpose.

While not comparing myself with a great writer, I would suggest that my use of the expression 'as thick as pigshit' was perfectly appropriate in the context in which it was used. It certainly seems to have made the impact intended! I was also trying to introduce a certain comedic quality.

As **** says, it is a term much used by educationalists.

It reminds me of another one. My wife is a senior psychiatric nurse. It is far from unusual in a case meeting for the consultant psychiatrist to give his professional diagnosis of a patient in the following terms;

'Fookin' barkin'!'

Cheers
Dan

 

[dennis]

The longer this thread goes on the more apparant it becomes that very few people know what is or is not correct,so unless you have a complete understanding of the subject I would suggest that you do not pass judgement on those that at least have the integrity to admit that they do not.

Dennis

 

[BradNaylor]

Shall we start on split infinitives?

To blithely split an infinitive must rank as one of the most heinous grammatical crimes possible!


Dan

 

[RogerS]

.......

As long as the context is there , one can usually (intelligently and logically ) work out what the intended meaning is.

.....

But if the author actually knows the difference but can't be arsed to correct the sentence or write things down correctly in the first place then who gives them the right to waste my time in trying to figure out what they mean?

I guess it depends how intelligent and logical the reader is

and as for a waste of time - it depends on how important the subject matter is to the reader - 'it's not compulsory you know' to read anything here.
......

So if I understand your reply correctly..

a) you do know how to spell properly and use appropriate/reasonable grammar

b) but sometimes you can't be bothered

c) which may make your posts less intelligible and that

d) you find it perfectly acceptable to waste anyones' time in trying to parse whatever ears of corn there might (I stress the word 'might') be among the chaff. It's all very well saying that 'you don't have to read it' but to get to that point and realise that it probably wasn't worth the time and effort interpreting your prose in the first place still takes (wasted) time and effort.

A simple 'Yes' will suffice.

 

[kityuser]

I feel a little bit self conscious after reading all of this now!

Steve

 

[Tusses]

.......

As long as the context is there , one can usually (intelligently and logically ) work out what the intended meaning is.

.....

But if the author actually knows the difference but can't be arsed to correct the sentence or write things down correctly in the first place then who gives them the right to waste my time in trying to figure out what they mean?

I guess it depends how intelligent and logical the reader is

and as for a waste of time - it depends on how important the subject matter is to the reader - 'it's not compulsory you know' to read anything here.
......

So if I understand your reply correctly..

a) you do know how to spell properly and use appropriate/reasonable grammar

b) but sometimes you can't be bothered

c) which may make your posts less intelligible and that

d) you find it perfectly acceptable to waste anyones' time in trying to parse whatever ears of corn there might (I stress the word 'might') be among the chaff. It's all very well saying that 'you don't have to read it' but to get to that point and realise that it probably wasn't worth the time and effort interpreting your prose in the first place still takes (wasted) time and effort.

A simple 'Yes' will suffice.

No

 

[davegw]

Is it at least fair to say that everyone is trying their best, and that sometimes that might not be very good, normally because they are:

a) Lacking some knowledge;

b) In a hurry;

c) Not using their native language; or,

d) Winding some members of the forum up on purpose?

:?

 

[Tusses]

Is it at least fair to say that everyone is trying their best, and that sometimes that might not be very good, normally because they are:

a) Lacking some knowledge;

b) In a hurry;

c) Not using their native language; or,

d) Winding some members of the forum up on purpose?

:?

I think this is probably closer to the truth . (he says clicking away at the spell checker ! )

b) is my main one, in that I openly admit my spelling is terrible ! and as long as my post makes sense, I usually dont get too anal about correcting it.

I doubt d) is a common reason except for in a polarized off topic thread like this one maybe

a) is a much better way of putting it than poorly educated

I have a reasonably good education and a well above average IQ (even I was surprised LOL ). I cant spell tho and never had any interest in english language or literature. I excelled in the arts and sciences . Give me a text book over novel any day ! - peoples brains work differently

just as different things are important to different people. Nothing as queer as folk

 

[Smudger]

If I might indulge what the French call a 'deformation professionelle' you don't have a problem so much with spelling as with punctuation.

 

[Tusses]

Yes and no - and I could turn that round back at ya There is a very broad group of people who dont put english up at the top of there priorities. Maybe you havent mixed with these people yet ?

I have my own view points based on my experiences , not necessarily professional, but life interests.

as for spelling or punctuation 'I' dont have a problem with either.

and as I said earier - this is a forum - and as such I dont consider it to be one of those times when perfect punctuation is as important as readability.

I know you can argue that punctuation aids readability - but so do forum smilies and the like


anyway - I'm off to make some sawdust for a bit, and take some photo's of my mortiser for the nooB with no instructions for his

L8R dudez 8)

 

[Paul Chapman]

I don't know whether any of you watched the programme on Channel 4 yesterday, "Can't Read, Can't Write", where a chap called Phil Beadle took on the challenge of teaching a group of adults to read and write.

I thought it was a fascinating programme. Two things struck me in particular. First was how devastating it was for the people concerned that they couldn't read and write - it affected almost every aspect of their lives, in particular because it resulted in them having little self-confidence. Second was the sheer joy at the ability effectively to express themselves once they had mastered a basic ability to read and write. It was as if years of pent up frustration had been suddenly released.

I'm sorry I missed the first programme - must make a note to watch next week's........

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Mark68]

I feel a little bit self conscious after reading all of this now!

Steve

If i am taking this in the correct context, exactly, how many people will be put off of posting because they feel, the more learned will be more interested in how well they spell,punctuate and the choice of words they use, than the actual post itself.

 

[RogerS]

I feel a little bit self conscious after reading all of this now!

Steve

If i am taking this in the correct context, exactly, how many people will be put off of posting because they feel, the more learned will be more interested in how well they spell,punctuate and the choice of words they use, than the actual post itself.

No-one has ever said this as far as I can see.

No-one is condemning anyone if they can't spell correctly or have difficulty with grammar. If anyone thinks, after reading these posts, that they are being 'got at' then a better case of cognitive dissonance I've yet to see.