Please help me get inspired

[custard]

That's a bit of a pessimistic post custard.

Can only speak from my experience with David Savage where he took people with almost no understanding of woodwork to be able to make exhibition quality work in a year.

I'm on difficult ground here because I don't want to speak ill of anyone in particular on a public forum. I don't have a particularly high view of David Savage but this isn't the place to go into that, so let's generalise the discussion.

Firstly, what's meant by this phrase "exhibition quality"? I regularly see awful work in exhibitions, either because there are few barriers to anyone exhibiting their dreadful work, or the organisers are looking for outrageously dramatic pieces and ignoring constructional quality. Plus there's a huge gulf between a bit of nonsense exhibited at a local exhibition and an award winning piece at a national or international prestige exhibition. So the phrase "exhibition quality" is pretty meaningless without a good deal of qualification.

Secondly, even if a relatively short period in a woodworking school results in an "exhibition" piece what does this actually prove? One of my criticisms of many woodworking schools (not all, but many) is that they pander to their students. So if a student wants to make something the school will compromise the syllabus to allow it. Unfortunately just because the student spent several months on a piece doesn't mean they made meaningful progress through the basic building blocks of cabinet making. I've seen examples of students who can proudly point to something they made on a course, but they're totally incapable of re-making it in their own workshop, so it's essentially nothing more than a vanity piece. This problem seems to be getting worse. A paid for school has to compete with other similar establishments, so there's a growing temptation to rush students through the basics or spare them the more arduous tasks, so that they can get on and produce sexier items. But when they leave and are faced with making things with their own resources, they'll often sorely miss the broadly based, fundamental grounding.

Thirdly, "exhibition pieces" and "commercially viable pieces of furniture" can be very different things. To earn a living making furniture you need to be quick and efficient. No one cares about those essential virtues in an exhibition, so exhibiting and making a living wage are often poles apart.

In my opinion, and it is only my opinion so feel free to disagree, paid for "long course" training misses the mark more often than it succeeds. I'm not advocating a return to poor quality apprenticeships where some hapless lad spends months sweeping up and brewing tea. But I know that no one goes from complete beginner to confident craftsman in a space of 9 or 12 months, and having schools that go through the pantomime of describing a student's main project as "their master work" doesn't change that hard reality one jot.. To be reasonably proficient in a full range of furniture making skills (so including veneering, laminating, curved and shaped work, extending and folding work, chair making, etc) still takes five to seven years full time engagement in the job. And pretending to a prospective student that there's a short cut to this standard of competence doesn't really do the student any favours.

 

[clk230]

Excellent Posting Custard !

 

[Beau]

That's a bit of a pessimistic post custard.

Can only speak from my experience with David Savage where he took people with almost no understanding of woodwork to be able to make exhibition quality work in a year.

I'm on difficult ground here because I don't want to speak ill of anyone in particular on a public forum. I don't have a particularly high view of David Savage but this isn't the place to go into that, so let's generalise the discussion.

Firstly, what's meant by this phrase "exhibition quality"? I regularly see awful work in exhibitions, either because there are few barriers to anyone exhibiting their dreadful work, or the organisers are looking for outrageously dramatic pieces and ignoring constructional quality. Plus there's a huge gulf between a bit of nonsense exhibited at a local exhibition and an award winning piece at a national or international prestige exhibition. So the phrase "exhibition quality" is pretty meaningless without a good deal of qualification.

Secondly, even if a relatively short period in a woodworking school results in an "exhibition" piece what does this actually prove? One of my criticisms of many woodworking schools (not all, but many) is that they pander to their students. So if a student wants to make something the school will compromise the syllabus to allow it. Unfortunately just because the student spent several months on a piece doesn't mean they made meaningful progress through the basic building blocks of cabinet making. I've seen examples of students who can proudly point to something they made on a course, but they're totally incapable of re-making it in their own workshop, so it's essentially nothing more than a vanity piece. This problem seems to be getting worse. A paid for school has to compete with other similar establishments, so there's a growing temptation to rush students through the basics or spare them the more arduous tasks, so that they can get on and produce sexier items. But when they leave and are faced with making things with their own resources, they'll often sorely miss the broadly based, fundamental grounding.

Thirdly, "exhibition pieces" and "commercially viable pieces of furniture" can be very different things. To earn a living making furniture you need to be quick and efficient. No one cares about those essential virtues in an exhibition, so exhibiting and making a living wage are often poles apart.

In my opinion, and it is only my opinion so feel free to disagree, paid for "long course" training misses the mark more often than it succeeds. I'm not advocating a return to poor quality apprenticeships where some hapless lad spends months sweeping up and brewing tea. But I know that no one goes from complete beginner to confident craftsman in a space of 9 or 12 months, and having schools that go through the pantomime of describing a student's main project as "their master work" doesn't change that hard reality one jot.. To be reasonably proficient in a full range of furniture making skills (so including veneering, laminating, curved and shaped work, extending and folding work, chair making, etc) still takes five to seven years full time engagement in the job. And pretending to a prospective student that there's a short cut to this standard of competence doesn't really do the student any favours.

Yes I should have not used the phrase "exhibition quality" as agree that there is often tosh on show at these things but what I mean is it was all of a high quality and would withstand the rigours of time through good construction and design. We were taught to do the basics with no pandering to wishes of the student. First up was to make our benches. Everyone had to do this and to a prescribed design. This took me and most several months as the learning curve at the start is very high. As the course went on you had a freer rein but everything was scrutinised and by David and the then main assistant who was an ex engineer which didn't' hurt. What I think was so good about the course was the way he taught you to look with a critical eye at everything from your design, hand tools, machines, setups and your completed work. Not a place for rose tinted glasses. For me this was the most important aspect when it came to starting up on my own and recreating the standards set on the course. Totally agree that the course did not leave you ready to make a living as David openly said he could teach you the skills but you would need years of practice to gain the speed to earn a living.

 

[Jacob]

The course I did was a condensed C&G carpentry and joinery - 6 months full time in an MSC Skill Centre with a regime not unlike an open prison (I imagine!).
Wouldn't sound promising and no "exhibition quality" products.
But I have to say it was brilliant - mainly as an education about how stuff is put together (the same constructional details occur throughout the industry from cheap joinery to posh stuff), the work process (design, the rod, marking up etc which are also similar across the spectrum) and everything done very traditionally with hand tools.
The staff were all highly experienced retired joiners.
For me the first 2 weeks was making up cross halving joints in bits of 2x1". Sharpening was half an hour at the beginning!

I feel that other expensive courses tend to skimp these un-glamourous fundamentals so that the student can have something flashy to show at the end. They also sell a rather tedious, unrealistic and pretentious model of a making a living; vague artist/craftsman aspirations, one-offs, bespoke etc. They are not doing this themselves - instead they are running courses, selling tools, writing magazine articles!

I'm always getting the impression that lots of people have spent a bomb on flash training of one sort or another (or huge stacks of mags) but still are completely ignorant of basics (the "rod" being one of the most common omissions, and sharpening completely befuddled for life :roll: ).

All we went home with was a certificate, a tool box we made week 5 (nothing like "The Anarchist's Fancy Tool chest" :lol: ) and a set of basic tools.
If any courses like it are still available I'd strongly recommend them.

 

[Jacob]

Further to the above - I forgot to mention one of the strong points of the course; there were no terms or start dates the intake was rolling through the year with no breaks except national holidays. This meant you were sharing the workshop side by side with people at all stages of the course and getting a synoptic view and sharing discussions from day one.
If it had been a "furniture" course very little of it would have been of no use at all (concrete shuttering installation comes to mind) but another 6 months being analytical about furniture would have been brilliant - particularly if it was "real" furniture not that "Celebration of Craftsmanship" style of desperately decorative tat. :lol: