Please help me get inspired

[RobinBHM]

There is certainly quite a market for fitted furniture, bedroom, living room, study.

Maybe consider specializing in something like this, which can be bespoke sizes but constructed with standard construction, moildings etc which allow you to gear up with jigs etc.

After all joinery is really made this way, standard sections, but different sizes.

 

[Jacob]

There's a lot of space between Krenov and IKEA.
Other crafts regard multiples as normal practice with few if any made to order.

 

[RobinBHM]

I dont suppose Krenov and Ikea are mentioned in the same sentence often!

 

[Jacob]

......
But jacob could be half right in that their could be an opening for you instead of looking at bespoke commissions set up your business to make a specific items say for example larder cupboards about 10 designs painted, different woods and sizes, 1 door and 2 door cupboards. Make up cutting lists and assembly jigs to make life simpler. Get a web site call yourself the Kitchen Cupboard Co.
I a'm using this as an example it can be applied to many different items........

Exactly. That's how most stuff is made, from the very worst to the very best, large scale to small op. The bespoke "artist/craftsman" idea isn't for everybody and doesn't have a monopoly on quality.
I think it's a pity that people can't simply make stuff to sell rather than hanging around waiting for a wealthy toowat to come through the door with his head full of krappe ideas - in fact a rather timid and unimaginative business model.

 

[deserter]

I think your all very lucky, well most of you anyway. I'm a cabinet maker, living in Shropshire. I've inly ever worked for other people as I can't raise the funds to set up a workshop, and no idea how to get work in.
My family and I dream of moving to Devon, but without an income it can't happen.

I'm not making this post for sympathy or anything, I just think sometimes you need to look at the good you have as opposed to the things you don't. You have work, a workshop and skills. Now make the most of that.

The flip side for me is that I have a great wife and awesome little girls, I enjoy spending time with all three of them, can I achieve my dreams? No I doubt I ever will even achieve moving out of this area. But knowing thats not going to happen means I can shelve my dreams and work on making a better life for my kids.


Find the positives.

 

[Beau]

I think your all very lucky, well most of you anyway. I'm a cabinet maker, living in Shropshire. I've inly ever worked for other people as I can't raise the funds to set up a workshop, and no idea how to get work in.
My family and I dream of moving to Devon, but without an income it can't happen.

I'm not making this post for sympathy or anything, I just think sometimes you need to look at the good you have as opposed to the things you don't. You have work, a workshop and skills. Now make the most of that.

The flip side for me is that I have a great wife and awesome little girls, I enjoy spending time with all three of them, can I achieve my dreams? No I doubt I ever will even achieve moving out of this area. But knowing thats not going to happen means I can shelve my dreams and work on making a better life for my kids.


Find the positives.

The grass is not always greener on the other side. Yes I am lucky to live in this part of the world not that anyone would agree on a day like today when the grass has turned to mud . You're quite right though we should all make the most of what we have and this is why I would like to get back to furniture making in due course as I am wasting my skills and training chopping up logs for a living.

Some good food for thought has been brought to my attention through this thread so thanks to those who have shared their ideas.

Beau

 

[dickm]

I think your all very lucky, well most of you anyway. I'm a cabinet maker, living in Shropshire. I've inly ever worked for other people as I can't raise the funds to set up a workshop, and no idea how to get work in.
My family and I dream of moving to Devon, but without an income it can't happen.

Hey- what's Devon got that Salop hasn't??? (OK, a coastline, but what else?)
Know which one I'd choose, but I was born on the Border.
Know how the OP feels, though. Difficult not to feel that a change is needed sometimes.

 

[Claymore]

.........

 

[Jacob]

I think your all very lucky, well most of you anyway. I'm a cabinet maker, living in Shropshire. I've inly ever worked for other people as I can't raise the funds to set up a workshop, and no idea how to get work in.
My family and I dream of moving to Devon, but without an income it can't happen.

Hey- what's Devon got that Salop hasn't??? (OK, a coastline, but what else?)
Know which one I'd choose, but I was born on the Border.
Know how the OP feels, though. Difficult not to feel that a change is needed sometimes.

And there's always Wales just a few miles from Shrewsbury. Wales is Britain's best kept secret and a lovely place to live and work.
When we were there a long time ago we got a lot of help from http://www.walescraftcouncil.co.uk/
This is a very covert operation because anybody looking for it will search on "Welsh" crafts council, which draws a blank.

 

[James-1986]

I think your all very lucky, well most of you anyway. I'm a cabinet maker, living in Shropshire. I've inly ever worked for other people as I can't raise the funds to set up a workshop, and no idea how to get work in.

I worked 5 years for a staircase company who I was apprenticed to, best 5 years of my life. I've been self employed for 3 years as a joiner and its a little lonely, often a steep learning curve, some days I just wanted to hide under the covers. I've got very lazy the past year.

I've found a business partner and am moving to a bigger workshop next month, its given me a lot of motivation, simply because I don't want to let him down. Perhaps that would help? I appreciate it isn't easy finding someone.

 

[Beau]

I think your all very lucky, well most of you anyway. I'm a cabinet maker, living in Shropshire. I've inly ever worked for other people as I can't raise the funds to set up a workshop, and no idea how to get work in.

I worked 5 years for a staircase company who I was apprenticed to, best 5 years of my life. I've been self employed for 3 years as a joiner and its a little lonely, often a steep learning curve, some days I just wanted to hide under the covers. I've got very lazy the past year.

I've found a business partner and am moving to a bigger workshop next month, its given me a lot of motivation, simply because I don't want to let him down. Perhaps that would help? I appreciate it isn't easy finding someone.

Think you may have hit the nail on head James. It is hellishly lonely working on your own and we are in the middle nowhere to boot. Currently selling logs for a living but it gets me out and about and chatting to people. No doubt I was rarely putting decent hours in the workshop but as you say working with someone else would make me do the hours as I am conscientious and would not want to let the side down. Also finding the right person would not be easy.

 

[Knot Competent]

Some really interesting ideas coming to the surface in this thread, one of which is that there are single workers who'd enjoy/benefit from teaming up with someone else, or taking on a keen youngster (rare as hen's teeth, in my experience). I've looked for such a youngster, as I have an inner desire to pass on skills, but when I pack it all in my skills will be lost as I have no-one to pass them on to.

What about a section on here for those seeking a partner or an apprentice, or just someone older who wants to learn? There are aspects of woodwork I could teach, and equally those I'd love to learn!

 

[iNewbie]

I think your all very lucky, well most of you anyway. I'm a cabinet maker, living in Shropshire. I've inly ever worked for other people as I can't raise the funds to set up a workshop, and no idea how to get work in.
My family and I dream of moving to Devon, but without an income it can't happen.

Hey- what's Devon got that Salop hasn't??? (OK, a coastline, but what else?)
Know which one I'd choose, but I was born on the Border.
Know how the OP feels, though. Difficult not to feel that a change is needed sometimes.

And there's always Wales just a few miles from Shrewsbury. Wales is Britain's best kept secret and a lovely place to live and work.
When we were there a long time ago we got a lot of help from http://www.walescraftcouncil.co.uk/
This is a very covert operation because anybody looking for it will search on "Welsh" crafts council, which draws a blank.

Maybe when computers were DOS, not these days...

http://www.google.co.uk/search?client=s ... LH8gev-Jco

 

[custard]

Some really interesting ideas coming to the surface in this thread, one of which is that there are single workers who'd enjoy/benefit from teaming up with someone else, or taking on a keen youngster (rare as hen's teeth, in my experience). I've looked for such a youngster, as I have an inner desire to pass on skills, but when I pack it all in my skills will be lost as I have no-one to pass them on to.

What about a section on here for those seeking a partner or an apprentice, or just someone older who wants to learn? There are aspects of woodwork I could teach, and equally those I'd love to learn!

Three points.

There are plenty of keen youngsters, in fact not just keen but hugely accomplished. The UK is a bit like the New Zealand All Blacks of the joinery and cabinet making world!

http://archive.teachfind.com/ttv/www.te ... aking.html

It's almost like there are two parallel woodworking universes out there. There are woodworking forums, woodworking events, and all the short woodworking courses out there. Which are generally full of retirees. And then there's a practising, trading, woodworking ecosystem which is largely populated by younger craftsmen and women who are far to busy actually making stuff to waste time with forums, events and short courses! But the inhabitants of each group are largely blind to the existence of the other group.

Secondly, I absolutely get the benefits of shared workshops, but it requires the right personalities and the right ground rules. I regularly hear of shared workshops closing, usually because small personality clashes have been allowed to develop into irreconcilable differences. There's potential for conflict all the time; "stealing" each others clients, "borrowing" tools or materials, not clearing up, leaving machinery set up for a specific job for hour after hour, hogging space with glue ups left in cramp for days, the list is almost endless. It's a real shame because sharing the workshop overhead makes perfect commercial sense. I've seen that it's perfectly possible for four or five makers to share one set of machinery, but it requires a great deal of maturity and forbearance from all concerned.

Finally, this notion of "passing on skills" is something that crops up regularly on this forum. Personally I'm not convinced that it's a legitimate concern. Craftsmen and women are infinitely ingenious and they're perfectly capable of re-inventing skills as required. Look at Phil Edwards of Philly Planes fame. Nobody taught him how to make wooden planes, none of the tools were available, and the relevant skills went extinct generations ago. But he's a smart and determined guy so he figured it all out and now produces planes that are the equal, or better, than anything made previously. What man has invented can all be re-invented.

 

[Knot Competent]

I'm sure you're right on the first couple of points Custard, but my experience of trying to find a keen youngster is different.

However, on your third point, there are often requests on this forum for help for beginners, and I've recently helped someone as a direct result. Where would be the harm in having a list of those who'd be prepared to do similar, and so encourage someone with less or no experience? Often, being shown how to do something is far more likely to inspire than a YouTube video of someone with all the bells and whistles which are usual in most American (and most of them are!) videos.

 

[custard]

Hello John, I couldn't agree with you more. Lending a helping hand is what we're here for, and formalising and facilitating that process can not be anything other than a very good thing!

 

[Roughcut]

I definitely think there's a market for Teaching/Training.
As I understand it the common apprenticeship route usually only caters for the 16-25 year old age group.
Generally people over the upper age limit are locked out.
Even the night school classes in Carpentry, Joinery, Furniture Making are becoming very limited which makes it hard for someone who is serious about getting into the trade.
Being self taught can work for some but learning from someone who has years of practical trade experience has got to be the preferred route surely?

 

[YorkshireMartin]

I definitely think there's a market for Teaching/Training.
As I understand it the common apprenticeship route usually only caters for the 16-25 year old age group.
Generally people over the upper age limit are locked out.
Even the night school classes in Carpentry, Joinery, Furniture Making are becoming very limited which makes it hard for someone who is serious about getting into the trade.
Being self taught can work for some but learning from someone who has years of practical trade experience has got to be the preferred route surely?

I really would like to do some training but all I've found are residential courses run by a rather well known chap in the woodworking world. 9 months I think was £15k, plus lodgings, food etc, then the opportunity cost. So lets say a minimum of £25-30k, to be safe, for that course.

I think perhaps that it's all the health and safety, plus insurance, that puts people off from marketing such training. It's a minefield to navigate through.

At 36, with a decent career behind me, I feel over the hill now I want to apprentice. lol.

 

[custard]

I definitely think there's a market for Teaching/Training.
As I understand it the common apprenticeship route usually only caters for the 16-25 year old age group.
Generally people over the upper age limit are locked out.
Even the night school classes in Carpentry, Joinery, Furniture Making are becoming very limited which makes it hard for someone who is serious about getting into the trade.
Being self taught can work for some but learning from someone who has years of practical trade experience has got to be the preferred route surely?

I really would like to do some training but all I've found are residential courses run by a rather well known chap in the woodworking world. 9 months I think was £15k, plus lodgings, food etc, then the opportunity cost. So lets say a minimum of £25-30k, to be safe, for that course.

I think perhaps that it's all the health and safety, plus insurance, that puts people off from marketing such training. It's a minefield to navigate through.

At 36, with a decent career behind me, I feel over the hill now I want to apprentice. lol.

I can appreciate the dilemma. In fact the problem is even more intractable as nine months is an incredibly short period of time to learn the full gamut of basic cabinet making skills. Many of the paid for training schools, in my view, exaggerate the level of proficiency you can expect after nine months of even the most intensive training. However, woodwork training is becoming an increasingly crowded and competitive field as many furniture makers are discovering that to survive on a full time basis they basically have three choices. Firstly, have an understanding partner with a proper job, in other words have some degree of financial independence. Secondly, take on tasks like site based fitted work or joinery packages, nothing wrong with that except in my experience they increasingly squeeze out the actual furniture making. Or thirdly, take on a paying student. And it seems like every week I hear of a new furniture maker deciding option three is the way to go! Consequently it's not surprising that there's some competitive over promising of where they'll take you on the skills spectrum after just a few months.

A more realistic route for most people wanting to learn furniture making is a combination of short courses, plus some diligent and disciplined self teaching, plus some realism about what you can expect to make. Spend a week with someone like David Charlesworth to learn how to get your core hand tools sharp and functioning properly. Spend a week or two with someone like Peter Sefton and learn the basics of safe and accurate machine operation.

But at the same time set yourself deliverable goals (like a really well made jointed breadboard after three months, a spice rack with dovetailed drawers after a year, and a shaker style side table with drawer after 18 months) and then rigorously and methodically set about acquiring the skills needed to achieve those goals.

Where I see many newcomers getting unstuck is that they lurch erratically from half finished project to half finished project depending what they read last week in Fine Woodworking or saw on the internet, they're never really in command of their tools or machines, they get seduced by glitzy but unnecessary tools and kit, and they're over ambitious regarding what they can realistically expect to make given the time and resources available to them. Avoid these four woodworking horsemen of the apocalypse and there's no reason why anyone can't produce serviceable, well made pieces of furniture.

 

[Beau]

That's a bit of a pessimistic post custard.

Can only speak from my experience with David Savage where he took people with almost no understanding of woodwork to be able to make exhibition quality work in a year.