Please help me fix my cold and damp workshop

[OLD]

I think the problem is the part of the wall that is not properly pointed has voids and lets water through also water gets on top of the slab and comes through the wall at slab level. You have solutions to stop the water from getting to these areas but the top part of the wall which has been pointed i would leave as is and monitor.
When flashing bring it up the good part of the wall to capture any splashing as it hits the lower part of flash tray etc.

 

[Benchwayze]

Trigaaarr,

I can only speak for my own area, but here, householders are responsible only for boundary fences/walls to one side of their property. That way all boundaries get seen to one way or the other! As far as I am aware, that is the National situation.

You must establish, once and for all, who is responsible for that wall. (It looks in parlous condition anyhow, and at least needs some attention on the top course.)

Before a bigger bill comes through the letter-box, I would advise you to speak to a Solicitor. Once you know who should maintain the wall, then you can start working out how to solve it.

HTH

Regards
John

 

[woodsworth]

The other two walls (the problem ones) are single skin brick parapet walls and they are wet through. It was built with brick because they are just an inch or 2 from boundary brick walls, so cannot be maintained (as wood would need).

Are you telling me that an architect in the UK drew up a plan that had only one layer of brick? No air space, insulation and inner wall? I find that extremely hard to believe. What does he have to say about the resulting problem? i'd like to see these drawings, because it is unbelievable.

That being said any solutions mentioned here are only gap fill measures that will not fix the problem, I can't believe that during the building process no one mentioned that this might be a problem, even if the Architect did draw it. Doesn't anyone come around to inspect buildings to make sure they adhere to a minimum standard?

This is indeed a nightmare on many levels.

 

[trousers]

trousers wrote:
It was designed by an architect......


How would you have done it?

I think you had two options when it was designed.

1. Build it with enough room between the boundary wall and the workshop so that a damp proof finish could be installed externally at the build stage, and maintained for ever after.
2. Sort out the boundary wall issue to ascertain ownership/maintainence. If aggreable to all parties build close to it but detail the weatherproofing so that the damp issues don't arise in the first place.

I suspect the "architect" was briefed by you to get maximum floorspace out of the available footprint, and at low costbecause the budget was tight. Since it's a non habitable space he gave you a single brick construction. What he then specified to prevent damp ingress you haven't yet told us.

Now that your stuck with the situation, the question is what to do now.

1. Sort out the boundary wall issue, and if that allows then weatherproof above and on it, as suggested by various others.
2. Since I think you may always have damp issues even after the above, you are probably going to have to take measures internally. At the risk of upsetting the "don't put expensive chemicals on bricks" brigade, I don't think you've got much choice, unless you want to lose space internally.
Internal tanking systems are well specified and often used in this type of situation.





[/b]

 

[Triggaaar]

I can think of 4 or 5 ways that would have been better than what you ended up with. I have a sneaky feeling that you just got someone to draw up your plans, and that he wasn't an architect.

No, a propert architect practice, a proper company on the high street with many years expoerience. I'd be interested to hear how it should be done without losing any floor space.

Your difficulty with overcladding the exposed wall is that you don't appear to have much of a roof overhang..........you are going to have to adjust your roof to make it overhang the new cladding.

I don't have any roof overhang, it's a parapet wall.

 

[Dibs-h]

Trig

You're stuck between a rock and hard place so to speak.

I would be looking to obtain (or have made up) the drip bead\gutter channel and install that - you then have a choice of whether to render above it or fit some cladding. Whether that is wood or metal is up to you. I suspect that your neighbours may not like metal.

This should remove the bulk of the problem - I would still use some type of water proof render (Trousers suggested some to me - when I was sorting mine out) on the inside as a belts and braces measure.

If you go down the route of the drip bead\gutter - drain it somewhere, don't just have it running over the wall.

HIH

Dibs

 

[Triggaaar]

Are you telling me that an architect in the UK drew up a plan that had only one layer of brick? No air space, insulation and inner wall? I find that extremely hard to believe.

Yes. While it is attached to a new guest house and subject to building reglations, this single skin brick without insulation is part of a shed.

I haven't spoken to the architect recently, but they suggested putting battons on the inside (insulating between if desired) with something like ply over the battens. So the bricks would get wet when it rains a lot, dry out a bit when it's warmer. This part of the building also did not have a dpm, but then how many sheds do?

Doesn't anyone come around to inspect buildings to make sure they adhere to a minimum standard?

Building regs have been round, they never raised any concerns, but then they often don't when they trust that the architect has designed it.

 

[Dibs-h]

Are you telling me that an architect in the UK drew up a plan that had only one layer of brick? No air space, insulation and inner wall? I find that extremely hard to believe.

[/quote]

Just because we are used to our awesome MikeG - doesn't mean that everyone out there is the same. I'm not suggesting there are shoddy ones out there, but as with all things there will be folk who probably should find some other career as they probably aren't doing the current one (& the clients) justice.

Just my 2c worth.

 

[woodsworth]

Well so it seems then that he didn't know you wanted to use the space as a workshop? I have a shop, it's terrible, they used 8 inch blocks on a damp membrane. Who knows what the original use of the building was. But now it is useless as a workshop in my opinion. My plan is to pull down one wall at a time and frame a wood one. A wood framed wall isn't designed to like a masonry one that needs a gap for moisture to run down the back of the exterior. Six inches of a wood cavity wall that has the appropriate water proof cladding on it, and bobs your uncle. If you brace your ceiling joists you can knock that wall out, fix the drainage issues, put a good damp proofing system, and build a wall complete with external cladding and slid it in.

From what i have seen Mike might have some good advice on wood framed walls, and what cladding to put on it that is maintenance free. maybe vynl siding on the lower portion and then some nice cedar on the parts you see. I don't know.

The point to all this is people are so willing to build something as cheaply as they can without any regard to future use of the space. How much more would it cost to do it right vrs. pulling down what you got and doing it right?

Or just don't put your workshop in that area. Use the guest house and have guests sleep in your house.

 

[Triggaaar]

Well so it seems then that he didn't know you wanted to use the space as a workshop?

No, I didn't even know I wanted to use it as a workshop.

From what i have seen Mike might have some good advice on wood framed walls, and what cladding to put on it that is maintenance free.

I'd like to learn about these options. Making a wood frame wall within 2 inches of a boundary, and making it maintenance free is probably not that easy.

The point to all this is people are so willing to build something as cheaply as they can without any regard to future use of the space.

I haven't even tried to do it cheaply. I've built proper foundations, a proper roof, and brick walls are not normally a cheap option.

The zinc/lead/whatever gutter solution is a bit of a bodge, but I can't think of anything better. So if I then render the top 3 feet of the wall, it should all be good. It doesn't sound like as much of a nightmare to me as everyone else here seems to think it is.

 

[Dibs-h]

The zinc/lead/whatever gutter solution is a bit of a bodge, but I can't think of anything better. So if I then render the top 3 feet of the wall, it should all be good. It doesn't sound like as much of a nightmare to me as everyone else here seems to think it is.

I don't think it is a bodge - even if the mortar joints were perfect - the fact that the run off is going down the gap - how else would you resolve it, even if you were at the design phase, but the construction details (i.e. choice of materials, location, etc.) weren't going to change?

I think the gutter thingy is actually a very elegant solution (cost affective as well) that would work just as well with a clad wall as it would with a rendered wall. How different is it really from the box gutter at the parapet wall?

 

[Triggaaar]

I expect Mike could come up with a solution (ie, if we were starting from scratch) that could give me what I wanted, but the normal methods would've required either a thicker wall or a large gap around the building, and I wanted to avoid that.

How different is it really from the box gutter at the parapet wall?

Unless someone makes it for me, it'll be less neat

 

[woodsworth]

I think the gutter idea is very good to. It won't solve rising damp though. I've seen some very nice Zinc work, Some trucks have fabricating facilities right on them that will make it look like it was meant to be there.

But it is only a gap measure. You will still have other damp problems and after reading through this thread a bit more i'd be worried about the walls in the guest house too. Unless those were drawn and built with that purpose in mind.

I guess at the end of the day you didn't know you wanted to use the space for something other then a damp vestibule. Just seems odd that anyone would think that building such a space for anything like that is a good idea. Its how others end up in the same situation your in. Buildings that aren't worth anything and in fact cause more grief then the value suggested on the assessment.

This is probably why this thread has generated so much interest, it touches a nerve with anyone who has such a building that someone put up and sold it on collecting it's value when it really cost more then it's value to put it right.

 

[Triggaaar]

I think the gutter idea is very good to. It won't solve rising damp though.

Why will I have rising damp? It's got a proper damp proof course.

But it is only a gap measure. You will still have other damp problems and after reading through this thread a bit more i'd be worried about the walls in the guest house too. Unless those were drawn and built with that purpose in mind.

What other damp problems? They were designed and built with the intention of the building being fit to live in and last. I'm not sure what problems you're reading into. Why would rendering the top 3 feet only be a gap measure, what it the problem?

Buildings that aren't worth anything and in fact cause more grief then the value suggested on the assessment.

This is probably why this thread has generated so much interest, it touches a nerve with anyone who has such a building that someone put up and sold it on collecting it's value when it really cost more then it's value to put it right.

Well I hope you're missing something, as that's not how I see the building.

 

[Dibs-h]

Unless someone makes it for me, it'll be less neat

Even I would get someone to make it - I would only give it a go, if it was lead and the gap was wider.

Have a look on Google and ring round some fabrication places - might be worth having a chat with some of the local seamless gutter folk.

 

[OLD]

'Unless someone makes it for me, it'll be less neat'
Wickes do a very tough peel off and stick felt ( flat roofs )this could be applied to treated wood with the inclusion of there primer its a two felt system but the first is so good that could be sufficient or use two layers of it, worth checking out and easy to work with.

 

[Triggaaar]

Looks like it's only going to be £60 to get it made in aluminium, so I think I'll do that. Probably render above it, but will check my options. Not sure how to deal with the water at the end of the alu gutter yet, a new downpipe seems excessive, but is an option. Maybe I could make it work with just 1.5" waste pipe.

 

[Dibs-h]

Looks like it's only going to be £60 to get it made in aluminium, so I think I'll do that. Probably render above it, but will check my options. Not sure how to deal with the water at the end of the alu gutter yet, a new downpipe seems excessive, but is an option. Maybe I could make it work with just 1.5" waste pipe.

No reason why it wouldn't - after all, it's not like it's a full size gutter.

 

[Triggaaar]

Alternatively I could put some sort of joint into the existing downpipes, like a strap on boss fitting.

I have a tiny issue though:
I've just been to check the size of the gap (and remove that half brick). The gap is bigger than I though, which is fine (I could even screw plastic guttering instead of aluminium). At the top it's about 4 inches. The bottom (between workshop and boundary wall) is now covered with leaves. I'll remove these with a pole, but my concern is if any leaves were to drop after my work is complete, getting them out again would be a nightmare. Maybe I just have to make my guttering affair prevent leaves dropping down the gap.

 

[TrimTheKing]

Please don't forget what Mike G said about the rendering. If, as you yourself have already said, there is no overhang (to speak of) to the end of the roof where do you propose to protect the top of any render?

You need to take the render up to the very top of the brickwork but this will leave the top exposed to rainwater sitting on the top of it and working its way down between render and bricks make your situation potentially worse than it is now.

Also, if the guttering fills the void then surely any leaves will settle in the guttering as there's no way for them to get past...