Plane Making
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Philly
Established Member
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Sorry-been away today and missed this. If it's not too late take a glimpse at this.
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/view ... 06&start=0
I made a plane from Paduak and MDF. Works just fine (although I dont recommend you use mdf :roll: )
David Finck's book "Making and Mastering Wood Planes" is superb reading-worth picking up for the mine of information.
As to blade angle-50 to 55 degrees is great for hardwood, expecially the pretty (read awkward) ones.
Hope this helps
Philly
Sorry-been away today and missed this. If it's not too late take a glimpse at this.
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/view ... 06&start=0
I made a plane from Paduak and MDF. Works just fine (although I dont recommend you use mdf :roll: )
David Finck's book "Making and Mastering Wood Planes" is superb reading-worth picking up for the mine of information.
As to blade angle-50 to 55 degrees is great for hardwood, expecially the pretty (read awkward) ones.
Hope this helps
Philly
ByronBlack
Established Member
Shady, as for style i'm going to go for something a little like this:
But with some extra contouring and maybe a little modification of the shaping.
Philly - I was looking at your site today funnily enough and was partly inspired by your mdf-plane, i really like the shape of it, and will probably incorporate some of the styling in my own project!
But with some extra contouring and maybe a little modification of the shaping.
Philly - I was looking at your site today funnily enough and was partly inspired by your mdf-plane, i really like the shape of it, and will probably incorporate some of the styling in my own project!
Frank D.
Established Member
There are alternatives to Lignum vitae, like hornbeam, bubinga, yellowheart, bloodwood, snakewood, ...most tropical hardwoods that aren't too brittle will last a very long time, a lifetime unless you use the plane every day. Over here a piece of lignum vitae about 16" by 5" by 10" costs about 250 pounds. But just because they sell it doesn't mean they should...it's almost extinct.
Javier
Established Member
Since you won't be using the jointer as a smoother you might want to avoidByronBlack":7qncuba6 said:
the steeper bed angles. It'll make the plane harder to push and dull the blade
quicker.
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Anonymous
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ByronBlack
Established Member
Peter - thank you for your indepth perspective on plane making, much appreciated.
I think i've made the decision to to dispense with the cap-iron(chipbreaker) for this project, although the blade will be a standard 2" record and not a hock (yet).
However I disagree with your views on the finger-jointed sole. Aesthetics play a part in how we use and relate to our tools, I think it shows that care and thought has gone into how the plane has been made and will be used. I find nothing offensive about ECE's planes, and i'm sure there are thousands who like the dual-axis finger joint, I for one do, it just shows a higher level of complexity, thought and engineering.
Sure, it may have only taken you an hour and a half to make a plane, but time isn't everything. I personaly don't just want something that is functional, I want it to be beautiful as well, this is why companies like Lie-Nielsen can charge so much for their tools - because they look good - and perform well!
I'm going to put a contrasting sole on my plane because I think it will look good and is a harder wood than the body which seems sensible. I find your 'soles are a bad idea' argument strange as you go on to say that you have only worn 1 in 27 years, and that you see no problem with gluing on unstable wood, doesn't seem convincing that is a bad idea. Surely it should be 'Soles aren't always required' rather than just a bad idea - as there is no evidence to suggest that.
I think i've made the decision to to dispense with the cap-iron(chipbreaker) for this project, although the blade will be a standard 2" record and not a hock (yet).
However I disagree with your views on the finger-jointed sole. Aesthetics play a part in how we use and relate to our tools, I think it shows that care and thought has gone into how the plane has been made and will be used. I find nothing offensive about ECE's planes, and i'm sure there are thousands who like the dual-axis finger joint, I for one do, it just shows a higher level of complexity, thought and engineering.
Sure, it may have only taken you an hour and a half to make a plane, but time isn't everything. I personaly don't just want something that is functional, I want it to be beautiful as well, this is why companies like Lie-Nielsen can charge so much for their tools - because they look good - and perform well!
I'm going to put a contrasting sole on my plane because I think it will look good and is a harder wood than the body which seems sensible. I find your 'soles are a bad idea' argument strange as you go on to say that you have only worn 1 in 27 years, and that you see no problem with gluing on unstable wood, doesn't seem convincing that is a bad idea. Surely it should be 'Soles aren't always required' rather than just a bad idea - as there is no evidence to suggest that.
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Chris Knight
Established Member
Byron,
Just a comment on your choice of iron. A regular record iron is very thin and the cap iron is provided inter alia, to stabilise it. Whilst a wooden bed will help reduce vibration, I suspect you may still be disappointed in the results.
I have never made a plane and am not speaking from personal experience so caveat emptor!
Just a comment on your choice of iron. A regular record iron is very thin and the cap iron is provided inter alia, to stabilise it. Whilst a wooden bed will help reduce vibration, I suspect you may still be disappointed in the results.
I have never made a plane and am not speaking from personal experience so caveat emptor!
Alf
Established Member
I have, and you will. Get a decent iron; that's the most important bit. All these short, thick irons for bevel-up planes just yell "handmade wooden planes" to me...waterhead37":1faiw6dn said:
You might also want to think about a rear handle too. Gripping the body of a long plane like a jointer isn't like cupping your hands round a smoother. The standard Western wooden planes didn't have handles for looks.
Cheers, Alf
Sorry - line crashed again - still not fully set up in the 'new house'.
Some interesting comments. I bow to Peter on Hock's 'O1/O2' designation- I knew it was oil hardened, anyway!
Alf's point about thickness and cap iron is a very good one, which I'd forgotten with various other distractions this year. it might make you reconsider on the blade - my fault for missing it...
Soles: on balance, personally, I agree with Peter on these, but ****, you make what you like - the Clarke and Williams argument about moisture and glue lines is 'probably' not worth worrying about, to be honest - nobody with Knight woodies seems to end up screaming about the problems his glue lines cause.
My observation would be that if this is your first self made woodie, I'd apply the 'KISS' principal. Even James Krenov - a lot of whose advice falls in the rather unhelpful "How do you make a rocking horse? Simple, Just remove all the bits that don't look like a horse!" school of instruction, assuming more skill than you have, makes the point that you'll need to make 2 or 3 before you're really pleased with one.
My other point is that the classic Fink/Krenov designs you pictured may look inelegant scaled to a 22" jointer. Have a look at the Ron Knight Jointer here - a lovely example of 'less is more':
http://www.knight-toolworks.com/graphics/jointer.jpg
Given Alf's functionality related point, and your mention of budget importance, I'd personally plan to make it out of some nice stable, cheap and perfectly hard enough Beech, with a Hock woodie specific blade. That will then give you ideas for the 'improved' version, which can re-use the blade assembly... Ahh, descisions!
Some interesting comments. I bow to Peter on Hock's 'O1/O2' designation- I knew it was oil hardened, anyway!
Alf's point about thickness and cap iron is a very good one, which I'd forgotten with various other distractions this year. it might make you reconsider on the blade - my fault for missing it...
Soles: on balance, personally, I agree with Peter on these, but ****, you make what you like - the Clarke and Williams argument about moisture and glue lines is 'probably' not worth worrying about, to be honest - nobody with Knight woodies seems to end up screaming about the problems his glue lines cause.
My observation would be that if this is your first self made woodie, I'd apply the 'KISS' principal. Even James Krenov - a lot of whose advice falls in the rather unhelpful "How do you make a rocking horse? Simple, Just remove all the bits that don't look like a horse!" school of instruction, assuming more skill than you have, makes the point that you'll need to make 2 or 3 before you're really pleased with one.
My other point is that the classic Fink/Krenov designs you pictured may look inelegant scaled to a 22" jointer. Have a look at the Ron Knight Jointer here - a lovely example of 'less is more':
http://www.knight-toolworks.com/graphics/jointer.jpg
Given Alf's functionality related point, and your mention of budget importance, I'd personally plan to make it out of some nice stable, cheap and perfectly hard enough Beech, with a Hock woodie specific blade. That will then give you ideas for the 'improved' version, which can re-use the blade assembly... Ahh, descisions!
ByronBlack
Established Member
wow, this thread definitly seems to have caught some peoples imagination, which for me is great, as i'm getting a lot of good information.
Peter, I would love to argue your points more fully, but I bow to your superior knowledge and experience, and will take away what you say very carefully. I agree with you in one respect about it being odd to have very expensive tropical wood atttached when its probably not a nessicity, but I have to ask myself - how vain am I? I want to put on a sole because of the elegance of the contrast, but your's and others idea's of keeping it simple means I should re-think, atleast for a few minutes
With regards to talking and not making, I think for a new builder like myself, its important to look at all the aspects and theory/practice behind the making of a wooden plane, going into it blind with no real idea or information is both a waste of time and wood. (Besides, i'm starting to make it today ;-)
Shady - I already have the wood so there is no cost factor in that (including the lovely rosewood ear-marked for the sole) If I did buy one of the hock blades, would that still need a chipbreaker or is suitabley thick enough not to warrant one?
Alf - I've already thought about a rear handle, the designs I was looking at didnt have one but that was only 17" with mine being in excess of 21" I realised that its going to be quite difficult to use without.
You mention the thick BU blades - this is probably a stupid question, but can these be used bevel down? and if so, would a veritas blade be a good choice, or should I really just stick to the hock?
Waterhead - Thanks for mentioning that, when I took the cap-iron of the blade this morning, I did think it may be to thin, you've confirmed my suspicions.
Peter, I would love to argue your points more fully, but I bow to your superior knowledge and experience, and will take away what you say very carefully. I agree with you in one respect about it being odd to have very expensive tropical wood atttached when its probably not a nessicity, but I have to ask myself - how vain am I? I want to put on a sole because of the elegance of the contrast, but your's and others idea's of keeping it simple means I should re-think, atleast for a few minutes
With regards to talking and not making, I think for a new builder like myself, its important to look at all the aspects and theory/practice behind the making of a wooden plane, going into it blind with no real idea or information is both a waste of time and wood. (Besides, i'm starting to make it today ;-)
Shady - I already have the wood so there is no cost factor in that (including the lovely rosewood ear-marked for the sole) If I did buy one of the hock blades, would that still need a chipbreaker or is suitabley thick enough not to warrant one?
Alf - I've already thought about a rear handle, the designs I was looking at didnt have one but that was only 17" with mine being in excess of 21" I realised that its going to be quite difficult to use without.
You mention the thick BU blades - this is probably a stupid question, but can these be used bevel down? and if so, would a veritas blade be a good choice, or should I really just stick to the hock?
Waterhead - Thanks for mentioning that, when I took the cap-iron of the blade this morning, I did think it may be to thin, you've confirmed my suspicions.
Javier
Established Member
Steve Knight dips the laminated plane in oil to further stabilize it. I just r
eceived one of his pocket planes with Lignum Vitae sole. Made very thin
shavings right out of the box.The blade is a quarter inch thick and has no
chipbreaker..
eceived one of his pocket planes with Lignum Vitae sole. Made very thin
shavings right out of the box.The blade is a quarter inch thick and has no
chipbreaker..
Alf
Established Member
Well unless they only use Australian steel in the bevel-up blades, it shouldn't know the difference... :wink: Hock, Veritas or L-N, whatever you fancy. Much of a muchness I should think. I've had good results with handless chisels in the past.ByronBlack":3uik4sge said:
Cheers, Alf
ByronBlack
Established Member
Javier, thanks for posting the picture, do you know what oil that plane is dipped in?
Can anyone recommend a good retailer of the hock blades?
Can anyone recommend a good retailer of the hock blades?
Javier
Established Member
ByronBlack":1dqv94ww said:
Sorry, don't know what oil he used, but here's the link
http://showcase.netins.net/web/iabonsai/knight/building1.html
Why not order from Ron Hock direct? Although I'd suggest that rather than go to the Americans you could source a good quality new or old iron from Ray Iles at The Old Tool Store - he served his time in the Sheffield trades and nowadays makes repro Norris smoothers, replacement irons for tools like mitre planes and deals in antique/collectible tools. Another source of "new" old plane irons used to be Charles Stirling at Bristol Design on Perry Road in Bristol (email:[email protected]) who certainly had a stock of Earnshaw (or was it Ibbotson) irons bought from the factory when it closed down (or it might have been a wholesaler, not sure). Main thing to know is if you want a parallel iron or a traditional tapered one.
As to oil used, might I suggest linseed? If it's good enough to use on cricket bats....
Scrit
As to oil used, might I suggest linseed? If it's good enough to use on cricket bats....
Scrit
Alf
Established Member
Rather than bother Ray, you wouldn't be in a position to tell us, I s'pose, Scrit? :-$Scrit":3a25bc5o said:
Cheers, Alf
MikeW
Established Member
Knight uses O1 fwiw. Several other plane makers here do as well. There are also a few repro blade makers (for anything you might have a need for like plow, combos, etc.). So we're not devoid of "less than A1" tooling for blades.Alf":1dodhcss said:
My personal opinion is it is merely to keep up with the company that made it popular, LN. Same with cyro-treating.
Give me HC anyday. Leaves the harder steels for tooling that is difficult to change frequently, like thicknesser / jointers applications.
Mike
another 2 cents in the pot
