Performance Royalties, Song Royalties, Gripe.

[Lord Nibbo]

You bought a new car, you paid for it, you let people sit in it, you let people ride in it for free. The makers of the car don’t expect anymore money other than what you paid for it when new. If you sell the car you get the money not the car maker.

You buy a house, you paid the builders or the last owner in full. You let friends and family stay over or even live with you. They may help subsidize the running cost, you may even have a little money left over. You may even sell the house but the original builder wouldn’t expect more money.

In fact I can’t think of anything I buy where I’m expected to pay any more than for the original purchase price.

Other than music.

You buy a recording, everyone concerned gets paid for it.

So how come if I let anyone listen to music on my radio or have my HiFi on a little loud I need a special yearly licence (minimum £60 per annum) that gets paid to various Performing Rights Organisations?

The greedy bastards want paying again and again for something second hand.

 

[Tusses]

and dont get me started on Micro$oft :evil:

you buy a pc with windows - you have paid for it !

yet you cant use that copy of windows on any other machine whether you own it or not - not even if the 1st one brakes beyond repair ! :evil: :twisted: :evil: :twisted:

 

[kityuser]

MS claim that you "rent" not "buy" the software under the UELA (or whatever) agreement which isn't actually law in the UK and many other countries.

Steve

 

[tnimble]

What is even more 'not right' that besides the big money making labels such as EMI etc there are lots of artists who either release their music gree of cost or release their music privatly without any label company pluggers etc involved. When such music is broadcasted, played in public, etc who do you think gets some of the paid licence fees which still must be paid in full?

 

[Anonymous]

In fact I can’t think of anything I buy where I’m expected to pay any more than for the original purchase price.

Other than music.

And VAT on second hand goods that have already had it paid when new, that really pees me off.

 

[Anonymous]

MS claim that you "rent" not "buy" the software under the UELA (or whatever) agreement which isn't actually law in the UK and many other countries.

Steve

I think the 'idea' is that you never actually 'buy' the software, you only pay for a licence to use it, subject to conditions.

 

[Tusses]

anyone else got a gripe with the TV lisence fee ?
with no choice whether you watch BBC or not !

I'd be quite happy with the option to not watch any bbc channels if it I could watch the rest for free !

 

[cambournepete]

I'd be quite happy with the option to not watch any bbc channels if it I could watch the rest for free !

You never listen to BBC radio then ...?

 

[davegw]

So how come if I let anyone listen to music on my radio or have my HiFi on a little loud I need a special yearly licence (minimum £60 per annum) that gets paid to various Performing Rights Organisations?

Sorry - but that's not true, the actual rule is that if you play music in a public place or with an intent to entertain. There was a chap from the PRS on the TV this morning who pointed out that the two examples given of a mechanic with a radio in his garage, and a dog home that played music to calm the dogs would both be exempt from paying the fee.

MS claim that you "rent" not "buy" the software under the UELA (or whatever) agreement which isn't actually law in the UK and many other countries.

As a former programmer I have a strong opinion about how you pay for software. You pay for a licence (not rent) to use the software on a single PC. You cannot copy it (and in some cases you can for an small extra fee) across different machines except where the intent is to create a back up. This is good, old fashioned, copyright law - It's my intellectual property and you can't just make copies without my express permission, it's the same law that covers books, magazines, music etc. etc

 

[Tusses]

I'd be quite happy with the option to not watch any bbc channels if it I could watch the rest for free !

You never listen to BBC radio then ...?

the point is - you dont have an option to skip BBC programming .

if you receive TV signals you need a licence whether you watch BBC or not !

personally I dont - I tend to go for the five us - Dave - Chanel 4 - e4 etc

wifey watches East enders - but that would be no great loss !

Like I said - its the principle - not the amount ! Why cant they just put adverts on !

 

[andrewm]

As a former programmer I have a strong opinion about how you pay for software. You pay for a licence (not rent) to use the software on a single PC. You cannot copy it (and in some cases you can for an small extra fee) across different machines except where the intent is to create a back up. This is good, old fashioned, copyright law - It's my intellectual property and you can't just make copies without my express permission, it's the same law that covers books, magazines, music etc. etc

Except that you can quite legitimately sell a book, or lend it to a friend.

Andrew

 

[kityuser]

MS claim that you "rent" not "buy" the software under the UELA (or whatever) agreement which isn't actually law in the UK and many other countries.

As a former programmer I have a strong opinion about how you pay for software. You pay for a licence (not rent) to use the software on a single PC. You cannot copy it (and in some cases you can for an small extra fee) across different machines except where the intent is to create a back up. This is good, old fashioned, copyright law - It's my intellectual property and you can't just make copies without my express permission, it's the same law that covers books, magazines, music etc. etc

of course, I stand corrected you "license" the software not rent
and obviously I don't own the IP behind the software (ie to disasemble and mod/resell) however I do own the medium (HD, DVD whatever) and as far as I`m concerned that means I "own" that "copy" of the software.
There are lots of factors in the EULA that aren`t law in the UK and other parts of the world, for example installing windows on more than one machine at home BUT only ever using one at once is not strickly within the MS EULA but depending on who you speak to is not UK legal.
And another prime example is BUYING OSX and installing on a non mac machine....... excluded by EULA but legal?....????

Most of this is beyond the scope of this thread an` over my engineering head
but it does cheese me off when so called "big-wigs" write a EULA that looks very official and scary but isn't completely legal.

at work our EDA software is all leased, no perptual licenses anymore :roll: which means a big stiuffing everytime the vendors come in to "re-negociate" with thier "85%" discounts :!:

Steve

 

[tnimble]

So how come if I let anyone listen to music on my radio or have my HiFi on a little loud I need a special yearly licence (minimum £60 per annum) that gets paid to various Performing Rights Organisations?

Sorry - but that's not true, the actual rule is that if you play music in a public place or with an intent to entertain. There was a chap from the PRS on the TV this morning who pointed out that the two examples given of a mechanic with a radio in his garage, and a dog home that played music to calm the dogs would both be exempt from paying the fee.

That is not entirely true. Its only when the mechanic in the garage plays some music in the garage to have something to listen to while doing his job. If visitors of the garage or his co-workers accidentally are able to also hear the music playing. If for instance it's time for lunch and all the workers go to the lunch room and one of them turns on th radio or puts a CD a fee is required.

Even more odd is that fees also have to be paid if you would go to that park and start telling a story, singing, playing guitar or something. This fee is not to forfill any royalties to original authors but for the performing rights organisations so that can protect your rights. These fess can easily get into the hundreds per hour. However about nobidy ever pays these fees since its about impossible to control that you actually inform them of the 'event'.

MS claim that you "rent" not "buy" the software under the UELA (or whatever) agreement which isn't actually law in the UK and many other countries.

As a former programmer I have a strong opinion about how you pay for software. You pay for a licence (not rent) to use the software on a single PC. You cannot copy it (and in some cases you can for an small extra fee) across different machines except where the intent is to create a back up. This is good, old fashioned, copyright law - It's my intellectual property and you can't just make copies without my express permission, it's the same law that covers books, magazines, music etc. etc

It's not. the content of a book do not get unreadable after a few years of use because the author of the book has wrote a next. The book can be freely re-sold or lent out. You may read the book anytime, everywhere. If you get the need for glasses or replace you exsiting glasses the book does glue the pages shut etc.

The only thing that should be protected against is replication and publishing about the same thing. The time that this protexction lasts is only a short period like the origional 4 years.

 

[davegw]

As a former programmer I have a strong opinion about how you pay for software. You pay for a licence (not rent) to use the software on a single PC. You cannot copy it (and in some cases you can for an small extra fee) across different machines except where the intent is to create a back up. This is good, old fashioned, copyright law - It's my intellectual property and you can't just make copies without my express permission, it's the same law that covers books, magazines, music etc. etc

Except that you can quite legitimately sell a book, or lend it to a friend.

Andrew

And I've yet to see anyone prosecuted for selling on software? you can always lend software to a friend, as long of course as you uninstall it from your PC.

 

[Mr T]

Hi
I have received a couple of letters from the PRS telling me I am breaking the law, I binned them. I work on my own in my workshop with the radio on.

A few weeks ago I had a phone call from the PRS telling me I needed a licence. I explained my situation and that I only play radio 4 (not strictly true, I do occasionally listen to radio 3 when feeling cultured).

She said that did not matter, I still need a licence. I replied that there was no way I was getting a licence. She said she would refer me to her legal dept.

Havent heard anything since. But this seems to contradict the gent on the radio from the PRS saying the lone mechanic was OK!

Chris

 

[Digit]

Havent heard anything since.

Had a similar response from the Trading Standards on two occasions, strikes me as bullying.
HFC Trust tried the same tactic once, only the wording was different. The lady on the phone informed me that if I didn't pay up I would receive a letter 'from head office!'
The hallowed tones in which she appraised me of my ultimate fate made me wonder just where head office was located!

Roy.

 

[BradNaylor]

I only play radio 4 (not strictly true, I do occasionally listen to radio 3 when feeling cultured).

I'll have to try Radio 3.

I love Radio 4, but find I have to have an alternative to Womens Hour when it's at it's man-hating worst and to some of the dreadful plays they are doing at the moment...

Radio 2 is OK when the regulars are on holiday and they have Mark Radcliffe, Stuart Maconie or Johnnie Walker sitting in.

Dan

 

[Digit]

Classic FM for ever!

Roy.

 

[kityuser]

As a former programmer I have a strong opinion about how you pay for software. You pay for a licence (not rent) to use the software on a single PC. You cannot copy it (and in some cases you can for an small extra fee) across different machines except where the intent is to create a back up. This is good, old fashioned, copyright law - It's my intellectual property and you can't just make copies without my express permission, it's the same law that covers books, magazines, music etc. etc

Except that you can quite legitimately sell a book, or lend it to a friend.

Andrew

And I've yet to see anyone prosecuted for selling on software? you can always lend software to a friend, as long of course as you uninstall it from your PC.

books yes, CDs though are a No. Some Sony CDs specifically state in the copyright that lending is forbidden. Again the legality is questionable.

I know for sure that "some" software is licensed only to the licensee (spelling), uninstalling and lending is supposed to be forbidden.
The issue of second hand software is interesting, I think its again forbidden under most EULAs.
They try to chuck anything in for a laugh! legal or not, of course windoz tries to enforce it with CD keys.... selling second hand means you need a new key and thus a new license (in theory).

This stuff about listening to the radio is nonsense, and playing in public???? what? at what point does me whistling in the park constitute a copyright issue

:wink:

Steve

 

[Digit]

at what point does me whistling in the park constitute a copyright issue

When somebody catches you probably,

Roy.