Pelotons

[AJB Temple]

Interestingly when motorcyclists and police and emergency services are taught advanced riding skills, one of the mantras is to dominate your lane where appropriate, and so as not to inadvertently encourage other road users (oncoming or behind) to squeeze you over. This can be especially so when passing parked cars (for example). Cyclists operating lane dominating methods (except briefly) can exacerbate their danger by winding other road users up. Cyclists have the dual disadvantage of being both relatively slow and more vulnerable and need to be mindful of their own safety. A rider or driver on an advanced test who does not show due safety and courtesy towards cyclists is asking for a test fail.

I do think we have reached the point here, especially in major cities such as London, where cyclists should have passed some form of proficiency test and carry insurance. My office is in the City and over the years I have seen countless accidents where cyclists passing the wrong side of central islands have hit pedestrians and then ridden off. I can't see that there is a good reason for not having some kind of identifier for cycles. I spent a lot of time living in Holland (my son is at university there now as it happens) and both the attitude and most importantly the infrastructure is different. Our roads are over stretched.

 

[Jacob]

..... Cyclists operating lane dominating methods (except briefly) can exacerbate their danger by winding other road users up. Cyclists have the dual disadvantage of being both relatively slow and more vulnerable and need to be mindful of their own safety. A rider or driver on an advanced test who does not show due safety and courtesy towards cyclists is asking for a test fail......

Dominating the lane is a matter of safety for a cyclist (only as long as necessary of course) and the risks from winding up another driver are much lower than the risk of being caught out near the line between vehicles on both sides, or hitting the kerb on one side. Cyclists have a third disadvantaged in that they have to wobble - too near the kerb and you fall over. A motorbike weaves in the same way but not so obviously.

Our roads are over stretched.

Under investment and bad planning and detailed road design. Short sighted really - cycling is a good investment in very many ways.

 

[Finial]

Interestingly when motorcyclists and police and emergency services are taught advanced riding skills, one of the mantras is to dominate your lane where appropriate, and so as not to inadvertently encourage other road users (oncoming or behind) to squeeze you over. This can be especially so when passing parked cars (for example). Cyclists operating lane dominating methods (except briefly) can exacerbate their danger by winding other road users up. Cyclists have the dual disadvantage of being both relatively slow and more vulnerable and need to be mindful of their own safety. A rider or driver on an advanced test who does not show due safety and courtesy towards cyclists is asking for a test fail.

I do think we have reached the point here, especially in major cities such as London, where cyclists should have passed some form of proficiency test and carry insurance. My office is in the City and over the years I have seen countless accidents where cyclists passing the wrong side of central islands have hit pedestrians and then ridden off. I can't see that there is a good reason for not having some kind of identifier for cycles. I spent a lot of time living in Holland (my son is at university there now as it happens) and both the attitude and most importantly the infrastructure is different.

If the attitude is different there it's because everyone cycles. Here only a few hardy commuters do. Next to nothing is done for cycling here. We have the kind of cyclist we deserve. I think you are probably right about the danger of aggressive drivers. It takes very little to wind them up.

There are good reasons not to register bikes. For one thing, countries that have tried it have found no advantage. For another, more people cycling would help solve some serious problems in our cities. We need to make cycling easier, not put obstacles in the way. As for insurance, apparently there are more uninsured drivers here than there are bike riders. Insurance doesn't stop accidents. The point we have reached is where we need to build proper infrastructure.

 

[Finial]

Under investment and bad planning and detailed road design. Short sighted really - cycling is a good investment in very many ways.

And still cycling is ignored when new roads are built. And almost all cycling infrastructure that does get built is rubbish, money frittered away to little or no benefit.

 

[Jacob]

Under investment and bad planning and detailed road design. Short sighted really - cycling is a good investment in very many ways.

And still cycling is ignored when new roads are built. And almost all cycling infrastructure that does get built is rubbish, money frittered away to little or no benefit.

One very cheap and highly effective way to improve road conditions in towns is to make some streets into cul de sacs with bollards which bikes could pass. Access only for motors - through routes for bikes

Though it'd probably go horribly wrong

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/pete.meg/w ... the-month/

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/pete.meg/w ... er2011.htm

 

[AJB Temple]

A lot has been done to create cycle routes and superhighways for bicycles in London (at great cost and material disadvantage to traffic flow it must be said). Some of this improves routes for motorcyclists too, as we can also use most bus lanes and cycle lanes are usually not solid white lines. It is hard to blame planners - major cities were largely developed a long time ago and could not have envisaged modern population demands.

 

[Jacob]

A lot has been done to create cycle routes and superhighways for bicycles in London (at great cost and material disadvantage to traffic flow it must be said).

Cycling is traffic flow. Most of Europe, including in old cities, seems to have recognised this and have much better cycling facilities than UK. It's also quiet, non air polluting, good for health (big benefits in saved NHS spending etc).

Some of this improves routes for motorcyclists too, as we can also use most bus lanes and cycle lanes are usually not solid white lines. It is hard to blame planners - major cities were largely developed a long time ago and could not have envisaged modern population demands.

Govt and planners lack of foresight then.
Most big towns have had massive investments in ring roads, by passes - sometimes wrecking attractive old towns. My nearest is Derby - massive areas of new road works and new car parks dominate the town centre. Unfortunately this started happening in the 60s just before the big boom in car ownership and has had to be modified and extended many times at huge expense, with zero spent on cycle facilities until fairly recently.
There is now quite a good network of cycle routes done very cheaply using back streets, old railway/canal lines, parks, footpaths. This in turn takes bikes off the mega road system and improves traffic flow (and saves lives).
Bikes are transport of the future; a huge benefit to overcrowded towns and to clean air, reducing carbon footprint etc. Curretnly with better facilities more and more people are taking it up. Also helped by interest in the Tour de Yorkshire etc

 

[NazNomad]

Bikers - Boys who like to go out at weekends with their friends on their own and park up to compare what they arrived on. :lol: :lol: *

You should just take this whole thread behind the bike sheds and sort it out amongst yourselves.


*NB: This post is joking - let's see who doesn't get it.

 

[Jacob]

I'd need a much bigger ruler than yours!

 

[Cheshirechappie]

I'd need a much bigger ruler than yours!

For what? Your mouth?

 

[bugbear]

This morning, on my 2½ mile trundle to work, I saw 2 woefully moronic manouvres on bicycles, and 2 woefully moronic manouvres in cars.

I think the problem is morons, not the form of transport they happen to be in at the time.

BugBear

 

[Finial]

I think the problem is morons

BugBear

That's true, but they aren't equivalent. How many people are killed by bikes?

It's like the original post in this thread - bikes sometimes hold people up, motors do it so much that it's taken for granted by people who complain about the bikes.

 

[Finial]

A lot has been done to create cycle routes and superhighways for bicycles in London

It's great that a start has been made, though most of the work done until recently has been very poor and ineffective.

But in my part of London nothing at all has been done, so hardly anyone cycles.

 

[bugbear]

I think the problem is morons

BugBear

That's true, but they aren't equivalent. How many people are killed by bikes?

Yeah - people using bicycles are both more vulnerable and less dangerous than people using cars.

BugBear

 

[Woodchips2]

I don't seem to get any trouble with cyclists but I do tend to pull in and let them pass me if it's safe to do so.

Regards Keith

 

[BearTricks]

As the only non car driver/cyclist/motorcyclist/tractor driver in this entire thread (I'm just a mere pedestrian) I must say that I'm absolutely pssed off with seeing car drivers talking on mobile phones.
Yet to see a cyclist, motor cyclist or even a tractor driver do it but I live in hope!

I've seen a lot of cyclists talking on mobile phones, and texting as well. Teenage boys mainly. To be totally honest, if there'd been such things as mobile phones when I were a lad, I'd have been doing the same. Not that that makes it right..

I've been looking for insurance recently and I read that women used to be considered safer drivers, so their insurance was a lot lower, but after everyone got mobile phones the playing field was essentially leveled because women are more likely to use their phones while driving. I think men are more likely to get in to more serious accidents every so often and women are more likely to get in to small accidents regularly but that's just what I read online.

I have to admit, there's a busy crossroads near my house that fills up with traffic from the local colleges at rush hour every day. I tend to walk to the shop around that time and there's a large number of Fiat 500s being driven by late teens/early 20s women and a few of them always seem to be texting. I've seen a few bumps and scrapes happen. That said, there's a gym here too with a blind corner leading out of the car park and I've seen a few blokes come flying round it, one person got hit right in front of me the other week.

As for bikes, I can't say I've ever seen someone cycling and texting, but I have seen people cycling and smoking which seems like the most ridiculous thing in the world to me.

 

[NazNomad]

...there's a gym here too with a blind corner...

I think it's fantastic that the visually impaired have somewhere to work out, if they wish.

 

[John Brown]

I thought the cheaper insurance for women was a casualty of EU regulation(well, I only thought that since someome mentioend it on Woman's Hour this morning), but that could be apocryphal. As a teenager, I used to cycle and smoke frequently, but then I wasn't cycling as a fitness exercise, just as a practical means of transport. Back then we didn't have a mummy that'd drop us off in the Range Rover, we had to walk, cycle, or take the omnibus.

 

[bugbear]

That said, there's a gym here too with a blind corner leading out of the car park and I've seen a few blokes come flying round it, one person got hit right in front of me the other week.

As for bikes, I can't say I've ever seen someone cycling and texting, but I have seen people cycling and smoking which seems like the most ridiculous thing in the world to me.

Ridiculous?

Let's have a moment of silence for all those who are stuck in traffic on their way to the gym to ride stationary bicycles
-- U.S. Rep. Earl Blumenauer



BugBear

 

[mind_the_goat]

To get this back on track, guess what I saw yesterday ?
Yup, a large peloton with 4 of them abreast, passing a point in the road with parked cars on both sides, effectively blocking the road both ways for a short section. Now I admit I didn't have to slow down, much, to avoid to ensure I didn't meet them head on and I there was just me who suffered very mild inconvenience. I wouldn't have taken much notice except for having read this thread recently. Just felt the need to support the idea that this does happen.
There is another section of road near me that I use regularly, and so do bikes. It's narrow, windy and hilly. I just have to anticipate that there might be slow bike round a corner, and accept that i could be stuck behind one on an uphill stretch doing 5mph, but that's the way it is. They generally well behaved on this road, I can't imagine they feel terribly safe, and ensure enough space between them to allow overtaking on the straights. I'm pretty sure most of them have cars, so DO pay road tax. My only concern is that tourists, and there are many, are not be aware the road is heavily used by cyclists, there really should be some warning signs up.