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"The Highway Code speaks against riding four abreast. I've never seen it happen on open roads."
On one B road near me leading to the beach you wouldn't go a day without seeing it. It's their holiday, you see. They glower at you if you pass, they glower at you if you follow. They glower at you because it is their road - they're on holiday so everyone else can go to hell. :D
 
Well, this has been an amusing thread. A lot of the time I commute into London from deepest Kent. Usually on a motorbike. You see extreme cyclist behaviour such as texting, drinking coffee, sticking arm out and turning right without looking, going over red lights, passing bollards on the wrong side etc...routinely. I see quite a lot of dimwit driving too. It's all part of the rich tapestry of life. Cyclists do scare me when they go up the inside of lorries or buses, but what the hell, it's their life. I actually prefer cyclists to jump red lights - at least they are out of my way then!

Until quite recently as a charitable thing I used to do a fair bit of examining for advanced motorcycle tests. This was mostly in Surrey, often around the Box Hill and Shere area, which is cycling central. There are lots of country lanes, mostly with a national limit, and loads of hairpin bends on steep hills. More than once I have seen collisions between cyclists and cars as the cyclists, a bit out of control on descents, try to straighten corners and are unavoidably in the path of oncoming traffic. Can be quite nasty and a couple of times I have seen the cycling groups blame entirely innocent car drivers, without, quite literally, having a leg to stand on. I think it is pretty dangerous riding a bike these days and we need to cut them a little bit of slack. The Boris bike riders are often the worst in London - not used to cycling, inattentive, and puffed out.

I disagree with Jacob completely about big 4X4s. I have a Q7 as our workhorse (prior to that an X5 and prior to that a Range Rover) and none of them have had poor visibility on the near side. On the contrary, my experience when comparing our cars (we are politically and ecologically incorrect and have some) is that the 4X4 has better visibility as you are high up, have a panoramic view all round and big mirrors. The current cars also have blind spot alert systems and lane deviation warnings, and one of them has a pedestrian collision avoidance system that stops the car if you don't, so safety is actually pretty good these days. I can confirm too that driving a 4X4 does not invoke in me a feeling of Kingship or indeed any kind of lordly lineage. My republican sentiments remain strangely intact and I cruise along in serene comfort (usually on my way to the tip).
 
Perhaps the answer is either:
everyone must spend 2 years using a bicycle on the roads and then 2 years using a motorbike and only then can they start the process to gain a full licence for motor vehicles. That way every road user will know what it's like for each road user and may increase civility and awareness.

or we all become special constables and arrest each other
 
On one B road near me leading to the beach you wouldn't go a day without seeing it.

I never use that road. Driving in town and in the country, it's always cars that hold me up, never bikes. Long lines of them, impossible to pass, many on journeys that could perfectly well be made in other ways.
 
Pass them on the inside. That's what cyclists normally do. Be careful of the little blinking orange light on the left hand side, though. It means you might get run over doing it.
 
phil.p":1bum6vx2 said:
:lol: I doubt that with a race pipe was much louder than mine with six foot long straight through shotguns on a 1900cc twin. She barked when I asked her to.

And my dad's bigger than your dad! :D

BugBear
 
Screaming is more effective than barking. :wink: :D

Pete
 
phil.p":3f7hf7f0 said:
Pass them on the inside. That's what cyclists normally do. Be careful of the little blinking orange light on the left hand side, though. It means you might get run over doing it.

Yes, always risky if the traffic is moving, particularly as many drivers think indicating gives them the right to turn and aren't normally very good at using their mirrors. You aren't victim-blaming are you Phil? You do know that one of the commonest accidents involving bikes is when a driver half overtakes a bike and turns into it?

It seems to be increasingly common now for drivers to overtake queues on the inside. On the pavement.
 
Just last week I was at a traffic light controlled T junction waiting to turn right. My light turned to green, all others were on red. As I pulled out a cyclist came from the left, ignoring the red light and on the wrong side of the keep left bollard, and rode diagonally across my path to turn right. Only my quick reaction prevented him getting a full side on shunt.
Sometimes I wish my reaction time was a bit slower.
 
Finial":1td4km05 said:
phil.p":1td4km05 said:
Pass them on the inside. That's what cyclists normally do. Be careful of the little blinking orange light on the left hand side, though. It means you might get run over doing it.

Yes, always risky if the traffic is moving, particularly as many drivers think indicating gives them the right to turn and aren't normally very good at using their mirrors. You aren't victim-blaming are you Phil? You do know that one of the commonest accidents involving bikes is when a driver half overtakes a bike and turns into it?

It seems to be increasingly common now for drivers to overtake queues on the inside. On the pavement.
Safest for cyclists at junctions is to stay in the middle of the lane so nobody can squeeze past or turn across.
 
" You do know that one of the commonest accidents involving bikes is when a driver half overtakes a bike and turns into it?"
I've always struggled to see this. If the driver has overtaken, he has seen the bike so therefore has deliberately run him down. When the cyclist gets run over, the driver hasn't seen the bike - there fore it would appear quite often that the bike (being sideswiped so to speak) got there last, in which case the cyclist is an ***** passing a truck on the inside coming up to a left hand junction. I'm not "victim blaming" - I object to the lorry driver, who is trained and tested automatically being presumed to be in the wrong when the cyclist often totally untrained and who might never have seen a main road is automatically a totally innocent squeaky clean saviour of the universe. You do appear to be virtue signalling, though.
 
whiskywill":f9iw4y47 said:
Just last week I was at a traffic light controlled T junction waiting to turn right. My light turned to green, all others were on red. As I pulled out a cyclist came from the left, ignoring the red light and on the wrong side of the keep left bollard, and rode diagonally across my path to turn right. Only my quick reaction prevented him getting a full side on shunt.
Sometimes I wish my reaction time was a bit slower.
I had my mirror smashed while sitting at a red light waiting to turn right. The cyclist took exception to my being in his way ... which I was, but only because he shot the red light to get there. Pitty I didn't realise he was going to smash the mirror - I'd have flung the door open and done it in style. :)
 
phil.p":8o8kgrcb said:
" You do know that one of the commonest accidents involving bikes is when a driver half overtakes a bike and turns into it?"
I've always struggled to see this. If the driver has overtaken, he has seen the bike so therefore has deliberately run him down. When the cyclist gets run over, the driver hasn't seen the bike - there fore it would appear quite often that the bike (being sideswiped so to speak) got there last, in which case the cyclist is an ***** passing a truck on the inside coming up to a left hand junction. I'm not "victim blaming" - I object to the lorry driver, who is trained and tested automatically being presumed to be in the wrong when the cyclist often totally untrained and who might never have seen a main road is automatically a totally innocent squeaky clean saviour of the universe. You do appear to virtue signalling, though.
A bit of truth in that. Cyclists should be taught to hog the centre of the lane and certainly shouldn't overtake inside near a junction - unless it's obviously safe - slow traffic, clear views, not stopping next to HGVs or buses etc.
 
phil.p":3ub4fyjb said:
" You do know that one of the commonest accidents involving bikes is when a driver half overtakes a bike and turns into it?"
I've always struggled to see this. If the driver has overtaken, he has seen the bike so therefore has deliberately run him down. When the cyclist gets run over, the driver hasn't seen the bike - there fore it would appear quite often that the bike (being sideswiped so to speak) got there last, in which case the cyclist is an ***** passing a truck on the inside coming up to a left hand junction. I'm not "victim blaming" - I object to the lorry driver, who is trained and tested automatically being presumed to be in the wrong when the cyclist often totally untrained and who might never have seen a main road is automatically a totally innocent squeaky clean saviour of the universe. You do appear to virtue signalling, though.

I think you are quite close to victim blaming here. You assume that the rider overtakes on the inside. That does happen, but I can tell you that it is commonplace for a driver to 'left hook' a bike. It's happened to me often. Mostly there is no actual collision, but I've been hurt once so far. To answer Jacob's point, there are many situations where drivers will swing out to pass, then turn. They do the same at width restrictions. I've been hit twice by drivers misjudging an overtake. I suspect one of those was a so-called 'punishment pass', where a hostile driver deliberately passes close. The other was a driver who preferred to risk my safety rather than wait about ten seconds for a passing place. Many, probably most, bike accidents do not involve poor cycling.

I don't think these incidents are usually deliberate. Perhaps the driver is not paying attention, forgets they have just overtaken the bike, fails to see the bike, underestimates its speed or fails to check their mirror. The point is that drivers make mistakes just as people cycling do. Drivers' mistakes are dangerous, bike riders' mistakes usually aren't. I can also assure you that the training and testing that drivers are supposed to go through certainly does not guarantee good driving.

Bikes and motor vehicles don't mix well. That's why we need proper cycle tracks.
 
phil.p":whyixulr said:
I had my mirror smashed while sitting at a red light waiting to turn right. The cyclist took exception to my being in his way ... which I was, but only because he shot the red light to get there. Pitty I didn't realise he was going to smash the mirror - I'd have flung the door open and done it in style. :)

I hope I damaged the mirror and paintwork of the car that ran into me when overtaking. The driver failed to stop, so I don't know.
 
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